U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-18-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
How many people would choose to do their work without pay? Why do we think that students would welcome yet another test that is not interesting and benefits them not a whit? I think a carrot or a stick has to be involved to make standardized testing have any value for the students. My newly minted HS graduate took at least one test every two weeks, much more then I ever did in HS.
ITA. If there's nothing in it for them, it's just some bothersome task someone is making them do. I really don't think kids try their best on the tests. I think they just want them over.

My first year proctoring ACT, MME and Work Keys (the triple combo that Michigan schools are judged on), I had a student come into the room, answer one question and proceed to take a nap. There was nothing we could do. They're required to take the exam not pass it. We need to tie passing to graduating. Even then I expect there will be students who just don't care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-19-2011, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
Reputation: 35869
Why would a student want to win a football game, if there is nothing to be "gained" by whether the team wins or loses, or if the student performs well or not? If a student wants to go into the testing room and go to sleep, has the school failed or succeeded in its goals with respect to that student? That's what's being tested.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Why would a student want to win a football game, if there is nothing to be "gained" by whether the team wins or loses, or if the student performs well or not? If a student wants to go into the testing room and go to sleep, has the school failed or succeeded in its goals with respect to that student? That's what's being tested.
The student who goes to sleep just doesn't care about a test that has no consequences for them. The school may have done a fine job. The student may simply be ticked off that he's being made to take a test he has no interest in taking. Only a few years back the ACT was optional.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The student who goes to sleep just doesn't care about a test that has no consequences for them. The school may have done a fine job. The student may simply be ticked off that he's being made to take a test he has no interest in taking. Only a few years back the ACT was optional.
So the goal of our public education system it to encourage and produce "what's in it for me" graduates who are disinterested in anything that doesn't personally benefit themselves. You are contented if that's the way they all turn out, and disregard classroom effort that does not have calculable value to their own personal welfare. Coddle them if they are ticked off at any activity that serves a broader good, and let them sleep through whatever has no consequences for them. Welcome to the America of the future. Enjoy the remainder of your trip.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So the goal of our public education system it to produce "what's in it for me" graduates who are disinterested in anything that doesn't personally benefit themselves. You are contented if that's the way they all turn out, and disregard classroom effort that does not have calculable value to their own personal welfare. Coddle them if they are ticked off at any activity that serves a broader good, and let them sleep through such functions.
Unfortunately, they are, naturally, disinterested in things that don't benefit them. My experience is that most kids view high school as something forced upon them and are not happy with the situation. They have no vested interest in making the school/teacher look good and may feel empowered by their ability to make the school/teacher look bad.

By the time they get to high school, this is all determined. Often by the parents. We're just stuck trying to figure out how to deal with the situation. Personally, I'm all for requiring passing scores on the tests to move from grade to grade and to graduate and, literally, paying kids for their scores. THEN we'll see scores that you can actually do something with. You'll remove the popluarity contest aspect (kids will try for teachers they like but they will throw the test for teachers they don't like if there's nothing in the test for them) and give them a vested interest in the test. Just requiring passing scores to pass a grade/class will get parents on board.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: WISC
57 posts, read 54,221 times
Reputation: 41
I tried on them. They are super easy and it would have been really boring to sit there for five hours doing nothing. No ipods were allowed. Just filling in the bubbles practically gets you an 'advanced' score anyway. I also saw it as practice for the ACT/SAT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 07:25 PM
 
12,454 posts, read 27,084,912 times
Reputation: 6946
Catherina, I don't mean to be harsh, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. There is no studying for these tests. They're easy for normal students but they take up precious class time so no one likes them.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 09:27 PM
 
15,756 posts, read 13,184,034 times
Reputation: 19646
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Why would a student want to win a football game, if there is nothing to be "gained" by whether the team wins or loses, or if the student performs well or not? If a student wants to go into the testing room and go to sleep, has the school failed or succeeded in its goals with respect to that student? That's what's being tested.
Football is an apt analogy, I like it.

Not every student gets to play football only those with the most motivation.

There are surely some very motivated students who will inherently do their best on any test.

But just as in football, the majority does not care enough to do their best if there are not benefits.

It wouldn't be fair to judge a coach's skill on how well a student who didnt even try out for the team plays football would it? Then why is it fair to judge teachers skills on how well a student who has no motivation to do well on a test that has no benefit or consequence for them?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Football is an apt analogy, I like it.

Not every student gets to play football only those with the most motivation.

There are surely some very motivated students who will inherently do their best on any test.

But just as in football, the majority does not care enough to do their best if there are not benefits.

It wouldn't be fair to judge a coach's skill on how well a student who didnt even try out for the team plays football would it? Then why is it fair to judge teachers skills on how well a student who has no motivation to do well on a test that has no benefit or consequence for them?


Unfortunately, I could only rep you once.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherina Martin View Post
Hi Jenifer!

That's quite shocking. The children are immature, they don't understand the importance of the regular tests. But parents are grown up. They should understand if these regular tests are not there then what kind of pressure and stress their children will face in the last 2 months before examination. It's better to study regularly rather than studying day and night at the end. And if their is no fear of tests then students wont study at all. Also these tests are medium of assessment of performance of the students, time to time.

Just try and explain these things to the parents. I hope by this they'll realize the importance of these standardized tests and will motivate their children.
Even parents don't care when there are no consequences for them. Parents do not want their child to feel too much stress over the tests and the tests don't impact their child's future so they down play the tests. Also, they don't look so bad if their child doesn't score well if they can say that they told their child the test doesn't matter. They can always say the test isn't a true reflection of their child because their child knew the test didn't matter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top