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Old 06-18-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,722,259 times
Reputation: 14499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by namomof3 View Post
The truth is that the parent has 5yrs with a child before they step foot in a classroom. The foundation for values, rules, expectations, consequences, have already been established before they are putin "teachers hands." PARENTS are a kids' first role models. Kids will encounter dozens of teachers in their lifetime in a nine month rotation. Parents are a constant. You can lead a horse to water but you sure as heck can't make it drink. very true. As a parent I will make sure that path to water is good and clear for the kid to get a goood drink every time
If you do an hours count, children spend appx 15750 total hours in school (counting lunch, recess, assemblies...you name it) by the time they graduate and 72580 waking hours outside of school!!!! Yet we want to hold teachers responsible for their educations????? That's a lot of pressure put on people who only have your kids for a lot less than 1/4th of their waking time. With only about 21% of a child's waking time spent in school and, considerably, less than that actually spent on education, it makes no sense to blame teachers when education fails. Where is the failure more likely to reside? In the place the child spends 21% of his time or the place the child spends 79% of his time?

As a parent you can lead a horse to water and but you can't make them drink. This past year, I've grounded my dd, taken her bedroom door off of it's hinges, taken her phone away, taken away computer time, tied privildges to getting homework done and for all that effort, my dd who is perfectly cabable of getting B's managed a 2.1 GPA. I'm just glad there's only one D. I'd like to beat this horse over the head but beatings are considered child abuse these days. Back in my day, my mother would have blistered my behind and we would have been done. Fear is a powerful motivator.
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:34 PM
 
613 posts, read 808,510 times
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I think I finally figured out why this topic is so heavily debated. I think the definition of 'failing' is not the same for everyone. To some failing means a student is literally receiving failing grades. To another failing is not meeting a certain percentage of students graduating or standardized test scores not being high enough.

My definition for my family it means the material being taught is not challenging enough for my kids. Or my child's teacher cramming in a few weeks worth of lessons into 2 days. Or for the times my kids may have struggled the teacher not questioning his/her teaching practices but laying blame elsewhere.

Not sure if this makes sense. I've been posting from my iPhone which is a real pain and sometimes the auto correct completely changes my words! Yikes not easy to edit with iPhone either so I apologize if this post is a mess
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,722,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steff Martin View Post
My question is bit different that education is being spread to every where but students are just getting education .They are not learning ethics from their education,Who is more responsible,students or us ?
The student's should be. If they were, like they are in asian countries, we'd have their success. Unfortunately, they are taught, from a young age, that their education is everyone's job except themselves. They get a pass. It's someone elses fault if they don't learn.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:09 AM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,089,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steff Martin View Post
My question is bit different that education is being spread to every where but students are just getting education .They are not learning ethics from their education,Who is more responsible,students or us ?
What does this mean, "education is being spread to every where but students are just getting education"? I do not like grammar being picked apart on this forum but I don't understand the questions. What does "learning ethics from their education" mean? Who is "us"?
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,266,094 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
Preparing kids for entry into kindergarten: parents
Nurturing a respect for those in authority: parents and teachers
Instilling a love of learning: parents and teachers
Making sure kids are well rested for school: parents
Making sure kids are fed breakfast: parents
Making sure kids are fed lunch: parents
Kids doing their homework: parents
Additional support a particular child may need to learn the material: parents and teachers
Remediating children who are falling behind: parents and teachers
Making sure children are taught what they are supposed to be taught: teachers
Making sure children learn what they are supposed to learn: parents and teachers
Making sure children receive special services they may need: parents and teachers
Making sure children pass the high stakes tests: parents and teachers
Ditto! If half of the energy expended trying to figure out who's to blame were put into working with what we've got, these types of threads would never have to come up...repeatedly...ad nauseum...beating a dead horse here.

I don't care if a parent works or not, and I don't care what a school's test score status is.

My child can be "proficient" in any one subject area (according to state mandated testing) and still bring home papers that show he or she is flunking - they just get to do them over and over again until they pass.

Does it mean they've grasped the 'concept'? Oh, hell no.

It just means that I get to beat my head against a wall trying to get them to learn how to differentiate between the words "lose" and "loose," how to stop relying on spell check and remember to drop the -e- before adding -ing as in "I'm comeing home" ("arrrghhh...it's "I'm coming home!") and not being off by one when he or she counts on his or her fingers while adding (because there isn't a calculator readily handy).

Oy vey.

Last edited by cebdark; 06-23-2011 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: missed the u
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Old 06-25-2011, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,164,358 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I wish there were a way to do matching polls but we can't so I'll ask the questions in a thread. Please answer who you think is responsible for the following WRT education of children: Teachers, the school, parents, the government or the child.

Preparing kids for entry into kindergarten: whomever is responsible for the child's education up to that point. Given the abundance of children in preschool settings, I would expect it's a team approach.

Nurturing a respect for those in authority: primary authority figures-- parents, caregivers, ECE teachers, whomever the child is in contact with

Instilling a love of learning: again, team approach, though I've rarely met a small child without one so I'd substitute "nurturing" for "instilling"

Making sure kids are well rested for school:
Making sure kids are fed breakfast:
Making sure kids are fed lunch:
Kids doing their homework:
How old are the children in question? If they're five, I'd say resident grownups. By the time they're teens, I would hope this would be considerably more self-directed.

Additional support a particular child may need to learn the material: the person who is responsible for teaching the material, with secondary responsibility to the resident grownup, and ultimate responsibility falling to the child once he or she is of a certain age and/or competency level.

Remediating children who are falling behind: Little personal experience with this one, but it's been my impression that public schools have personnel designated to deal with this. I've rarely found children who are falling behind to have parents capable of getting them back up to speed, or they wouldn't be falling behind in the first place. So in this case, point man would have to be a designee.

Making sure children are taught what they are supposed to be taught: Whomever the person who is supposed to be teaching it reports to.

Making sure children learn what they are supposed to learn: The person or persons involved in the process. Again, that "team" concept, with team leader responsibilities varying depending on the age and competency of the players

Making sure children receive special services they may need: ideally, the person whose responsibility it is to identify and provide them. Failing that, and based on my personal experience with IEP meetings and school personnel who wouldn't know federal case law if it bit them on the bum, the person most invested in making sure Junior isn't living in the basement at forty.


Making sure children pass the high stakes tests: Whomever has the greatest stake in the outcome. In case of things like FCAT, I suppose that would be politicians.
Ideally, education is a team approach (student, resident adults, teachers, parents, coaches, whomever else is involved). How successful the team is depends on team members-- if any one of the individuals involved is incompetent or disinterested it makes it that much harder on the rest. Saying it's all the parent only works if the scenario is homeschooling a very young child; saying it's all the teacher is naive and an abdication of parental roles. Throw the jobs of community members and school administrators and support personnel into the mix and it gets even knottier.
And claiming it's all the child's responsibility starts threads about unschooling.
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Old 06-25-2011, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,164,358 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers19 View Post
For fear of opening up a can of worms, what are your thoughts on how the American Disabilities Act has made a huge impact on the way we educate our children? I have my own thoughts on this and would like to know other's thoughts, as well.
ADA/IDEA's impact depends quite a bit on the disability.
Being a member of the antiquated set, I remember a certain little boy in my early classes who clearly was the poster child for unidentified ADHD. He spent most of the class time out in the hall (where he didn't stay in the seat provided for him, of course) or-- in second grade-- under the teacher's desk. I lost track of him in junior high, but I can't imagine he graduated since he'd been held back twice by then. I expect identification and accommodations would probably have done him a world of good.
My daughter's IEP, when she was in school and had one, ultimately made little difference for her because her third grade teacher was brand new and kept forgetting to follow it. (Another teacher claimed she didn't get a copy until October.) So I expect execution depends on the individuals involved. Ultimately, a good IEP well-executed can make a world of difference to a child who needs one.
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Old 06-25-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,164,358 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers19 View Post
Many parents today rely too heavily on the school environment to teach their children basic study skills, manners, etiquette, etc., to the detriment that basic learning of math, English, etc. are sometimes put on the back burner.
I'll grant you that one. All the "Commitment to Character" classes in the world won't make a difference if the schools are dealing with a kid being raised by wolves.
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Old 06-25-2011, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,164,358 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I know plenty of kids who had single working moms who could ready before kindergarten and plenty with stay at home moms who couldn't. You are attributing cause where there is none.
I've been both and had both. WM with eldest two, one of whom was reading before kindergarten, and SAHM with youngest (one of whom was reading Bob books in kindergarten, the other of whom was reading Poe). It's not my doing, any of it. Reading is very much a developmental issue. We have an exceedingly bright friend who didn't read until quite late. He's the local USFirst team prodigy these days, despite only having really learned to read about three years ago.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:12 AM
 
613 posts, read 808,510 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:

I wish there were a way to do matching polls but we can't so I'll ask the questions in a thread. Please answer who you think is responsible for the following WRT education of children: Teachers, the school, parents, the government or the child.

Preparing kids for entry into kindergarten: whomever is responsible for the child's education up to that point. Given the abundance of children in preschool settings, I would expect it's a team approach.

Nurturing a respect for those in authority: primary authority figures-- parents, caregivers, ECE teachers, whomever the child is in contact with

Instilling a love of learning: again, team approach, though I've rarely met a small child without one so I'd substitute "nurturing" for "instilling"

Making sure kids are well rested for school:
Making sure kids are fed breakfast:
Making sure kids are fed lunch:
Kids doing their homework:
How old are the children in question? If they're five, I'd say resident grownups. By the time they're teens, I would hope this would be considerably more self-directed.

Additional support a particular child may need to learn the material: the person who is responsible for teaching the material, with secondary responsibility to the resident grownup, and ultimate responsibility falling to the child once he or she is of a certain age and/or competency level.

Remediating children who are falling behind: Little personal experience with this one, but it's been my impression that public schools have personnel designated to deal with this. I've rarely found children who are falling behind to have parents capable of getting them back up to speed, or they wouldn't be falling behind in the first place. So in this case, point man would have to be a designee.

Making sure children are taught what they are supposed to be taught: Whomever the person who is supposed to be teaching it reports to.

Making sure children learn what they are supposed to learn: The person or persons involved in the process. Again, that "team" concept, with team leader responsibilities varying depending on the age and competency of the players

Making sure children receive special services they may need: ideally, the person whose responsibility it is to identify and provide them. Failing that, and based on my personal experience with IEP meetings and school personnel who wouldn't know federal case law if it bit them on the bum, the person most invested in making sure Junior isn't living in the basement at forty.


Making sure children pass the high stakes tests: Whomever has the greatest stake in the outcome. In case of things like FCAT, I suppose that would be politicians.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Ideally, education is a team approach (student, resident adults, teachers, parents, coaches, whomever else is involved). How successful the team is depends on team members-- if any one of the individuals involved is incompetent or disinterested it makes it that much harder on the rest. Saying it's all the parent only works if the scenario is homeschooling a very young child; saying it's all the teacher is naive and an abdication of parental roles. Throw the jobs of community members and school administrators and support personnel into the mix and it gets even knottier.
And claiming it's all the child's responsibility starts threads about unschooling.
Can I nominate this post for "Best Post of the Year!"?
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