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Old 06-20-2011, 09:57 AM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,696,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Because I am very close to people who have completed it, and they pretty much all agree it's a joke. No offense.

Not saying teaching is a joke. Tough job. But seriously...?
Well, to be fair, you're in Texas.
You couldn't possibly be "very close" to any teachers who got their credentials in, say, New Jersey.
Because I will tell you from experience it is no joke.

Please, though, attempt to become certified there (or become "very close" to someone who was). And then get back to me.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,203 posts, read 49,740,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Well, to be fair, you're in Texas.
You couldn't possibly be "very close" to any teachers who got their credentials in, say, New Jersey.
Because I will tell you from experience it is no joke.

Please, though, attempt to become certified there (or become "very close" to someone who was). And then get back to me.
Really? Cuz I couldn't have been born in New York, lived overseas (or any other states), and just happen to be in Texas now...and all the people I have ever met are from this 10 square mile area?

Are you effin' serious?

Btw, how 'hard' it is in Jersey may partly explain why NJ teachers get paid so well.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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When you make generalizations such as you did, it shouldn't be unexpected for a person to assume the "all the people you have ever met are from that 10 mile radius." What did you expect?

New Jersey teachers, for most districts, are paid well in relation to their counterparts in other states
partly because of the extensive training and certification required.
There is also the union (which I could not stand, truth be told, they should be obliterated) which bargains for the teachers.

But do not ever assume that teacher training is a joke
and not expect to be taken to task for what "vast life experience" you try to convince us you have.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Really? Cuz I couldn't have been born in New York, lived overseas (or any other states), and just happen to be in Texas now...and all the people I have ever met are from this 10 square mile area?

Are you effin' serious?

Btw, how 'hard' it is in Jersey may partly explain why NJ teachers get paid so well.
How much do NJ teachers get paid? How much do Texas teachers get paid?
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Over There
402 posts, read 1,207,133 times
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Cool Knowledge is only ONE aspect of a good teacher, but it IS a necessary one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
. . . many of the people I know who teach (or hold the credentials) are really not...very...smart...

I propose we make . . . it HARD to graduate your training as a teacher. . . .

. . . my pre-med INTRO chemistry class . . . had a curve that purposely failed 40% of the students. . . .

. . . I have always loved and respected teachers . . . They should be paid well . . .

Discuss.

There are many different types of teachers. Some are good and some are not. Some are smart and some are not. Ideally, ALL teachers would be good AND more knowledgable (in their subject areas) than their students. Knowledge is only ONE aspect of a good teacher, but it IS a necessary one.

You mention credentialing, which typically only applies to K-12 positions. So, I will focus on elementary educators.
Besides, the vast majority of my college professors were very knowledgable in their subject areas.

Very few elementary school teachers were straight A students. Most (but not all) K-12 teachers were C and B students (2.0 - 3.9).
Education majors also score lower (as a group) on standardized tests than combined majors.

Average GRE scores (2006-2009)
For All 06-09 majors: Verbal: 456, Quantitative: 590, & Writing: 3.8.
For Education majors: Verbal: 440, Quantitative: 522, & Writing: 4.2.

How much does it matter?

Teachers really don't need to be incredibly intelligent to teach third grade. They SHOULD be EXPERTS at the grade-level subjects, which they teach.
Some teachers do an amazing job, but some fail miserably IMHO.

Teaching programs vary greatly on GPA and other requirements. States don't currently (some did previously) require a master's degree to begin teaching in K-12 classrooms. Massachusetts, New York, and Ohio require teachers to receive a master's degree within five years of the time they begin teaching. Most schools only require master's degrees for Special Ed. teachers and counselors. In schools today, we still have uncertified teachers who are teaching with "emergency credentials" or as "long-term substitutes". This is why school districts have to report the percentage of fully credentialed teachers who are teaching in their classrooms.


Stricter guidelines COULD improve the teacher pool. Also, limiting the number of attempts that teachers may take certification (Praxis) exams might result in eliminating less-qualified teachers. Unfortunately, school districts are very political, which often leads to hiring that is not based solely on finding the best teachers.


I do NOT think that failing 40% of students just for the sake of maintaining a strict grading curve is just. However, I do believe that teaching programs, degrees, and exams should be rigorous enough to weed out the ones who do not possess the knowledge to teach their subjects. I also favor minimum GPAs, SATs, & GREs for MANY professions.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:39 AM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,696,319 times
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Holy emoticons!
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:44 AM
 
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If your state is on the bottom half of the list, you should be asking some questions.

Student's Chances of Success [based on education]

Massachusetts A 1
New Jersey A- 2
New Hampshire A- 3
Connecticut A- 4
Minnesota B+ 5
Maryland B+ 6
Vermont B+ 7
North Dakota B 8
Virginia B 9
Pennsylvania B 10
Wisconsin B 11
Iowa B 12
New York B 13
Colorado B- 14
Kansas B- 15
Nebraska B- 16
Illinois B- 17
Utah B- 18
South Dakota B- 19
Rhode Island B- 20
Montana B- 21
Washington B- 22
Wyoming C+ 23
Delaware C+ 24
Ohio C+ 25
Maine C+ 26
Hawaii C+ 27
Missouri C+ 28
Indiana C+ 29
Michigan C+ 30
DC C+ 31
Idaho C 32
North Carolina C 33
Oregon C 34
Florida C 35
South Carolina C 36
Alaska C 37
Georgia C 38
Texas C 39
Kentucky C 40
California C 41
Alabama C- 42
Oklahoma C- 43
Tennessee C- 44
Arizona C- 45
Arkansas C- 46
West Virginia C- 47
Louisiana C- 48
Mississippi D+ 49
New Mexico D+ 50
Nevada D+ 51

Src: http://www.edweek.org/media/ew/qc/20...essRelease.pdf
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:56 AM
 
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Must have a degree in something real before you can apply for a teaching degree.

Or, real world experience demonstrating actual accomplishment.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:57 AM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,696,319 times
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While teaching credentials, experience, opportunity, etc in any state varies due to funding/taxes and so on, the success of students in any state will surely fluctuate due to other factors.

For example, NJ (where I taught) is #2 on this list.
But in areas such as Newark, Camden, and Atlantic City, various factors ensure that
most of those students will not succeed in their education and/or in other aspects of life.
So many other things come into play when it comes to student success,
one of the main points being parental involvement (both in the child's life and in their education).
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Inyokern, CA
1,609 posts, read 874,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Cool.

So do you not agree that making it even HARDER might strengthen our teaching pool?
Never happen unless we clean up our education system from 1st grade through college/university. What is taught today is a combination of too little too late (I was better educated at the 8th grade than most college grads today) plus all the crap that doesn't belong in the educational system has to be eliminated...such as politics, bad English, personal agendas, 1st graders singing praises to "Barak Obama" which is politics, and so much more plain old crap that belongs being addressed in the home...not school! Education should be limited to basics in the younger grades; i.e., arithmetic/math, sciences and health, English, other languages, biology, history (both world and U.S.), memorize our Constitution, etc., etc. up through 12th grades. Get rid of cell phones in school and get rid of computers to perhaps the last couple of high school grades. Otherwise, the learning of how to use the brain is diminished exponentially...and I could go on and on.

Until the actual education system is scrapped and then correctly re-instituted to actually educate, there is no way to produce highly qualified teachers for the most part. The other problem is that most of the teachers that actually knew what to teach, how to teach and what not to address are either in their 80's + or have died! Leaves a really big problem to go back to good education.
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