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Old 06-20-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,245,696 times
Reputation: 3088

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Quote:
Originally posted by bluebelt1234
I propose:

Teachers need to be in the classroom on the first day they decide to be an education major. Enough of the anthropology classes already. Put the teacher in the classroom on DAY 1.


Prospective teachers need to be required to complete X of hours subbing or volunteering in a public school.
I really couldn't agree more. My college only required a pre-internship and a semester of student teaching. And you could only take them AFTER you completed all your coursework. I had a lot of classmates who aced all of their classes, got to their student teaching and then realized they hated the idea of becoming a teacher. A few even failed their internships because they couldn't effectively teach. There's thousands of $$$ down the drain. I'm considered an effective teacher in my district, but I think I could have used more field work to prepare me for my first year.

Quote:
Enough with the methods courses. Make prospective teachers plan actual lesson plans the way they do them in a real school. Then, make them teach these lessons to real children and not college classmates.
I used absolutely NOTHING from my methods classes. They were somewhat interesting, but not useful in the least.
Quote:

A classroom management course should be mandatory in all colleges. This class should include a practicuum with real students in an inner city school. This is where most ed. grads will find a job, if they are lucky enough to find one that is. Show them what inner city kids are like and prepare the teachers so inner city kids can have prepared teachers. Too many inner city kids are stuck with the teacher who completed a six week course because they couldn't find another career.
[/quote]

My college didn't offer a classroom management class, but but even so, it wouldn't have been useful because it was strictly in a college classroom. No field work at all.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:39 PM
 
6,550 posts, read 12,606,614 times
Reputation: 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234 View Post
Teaching degrees are so freaking easy that they are useless now. No one will hire a former teacher because teaching degrees don't give you any skills. Plus, it is so easy to get one that the field is severely oversaturated. You can easily graduate with a 2.3 GPA with an elementary education degree. That is a terribly low GPA.

I propose:

Teachers need to be in the classroom on the first day they decide to be an education major. Enough of the anthropology classes already. Put the teacher in the classroom on DAY 1.

Prospective teachers need to be required to complete X of hours subbing or volunteering in a public school.

Enough with the methods courses. Make prospective teachers plan actual lesson plans the way they do them in a real school. Then, make them teach these lessons to real children and not college classmates.

A classroom management course should be mandatory in all colleges. This class should include a practicuum with real students in an inner city school. This is where most ed. grads will find a job, if they are lucky enough to find one that is. Show them what inner city kids are like and prepare the teachers so inner city kids can have prepared teachers. Too many inner city kids are stuck with the teacher who completed a six week course because they couldn't find another career.
So you want a teaching degree to be earned in more of a "Vo Tech" style?

Hmmmm, that might be a way to go.

All I know is that if we're suddenly going to start mandating higher degrees and achievement for our teachers, the pay needs to improve...

Right now the teaching profession is VERY much subject to supply/demand, but only with regard to the requirements to enter the profession, NOT the pay.

IOW, if a county has a teacher shortage, they hire less qualified teachers. They don't offer to pay more. Conversely if they only need a few? They demand better credentials, but don't reduce pay.....

Bottom line is that if you make the requirements to lofty, as things currently stand, you will have people finding other careers.

It isn't worth it to earn higher education degrees and rack up $100K in debt to earn a teacher's salary and have deal with the unruliness in today's classrooms at $40K/yr.... It just isn't.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,204 posts, read 49,740,662 times
Reputation: 66975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
When you make generalizations such as you did, it shouldn't be unexpected for a person to assume the "all the people you have ever met are from that 10 mile radius." What did you expect?

New Jersey teachers, for most districts, are paid well in relation to their counterparts in other states
partly because of the extensive training and certification required.
There is also the union (which I could not stand, truth be told, they should be obliterated) which bargains for the teachers.

But do not ever assume that teacher training is a joke
and not expect to be taken to task for what "vast life experience" you try to convince us you have.
Um. So I looked up the 'qualifications' on the NJ website. They include a degree, a test, passing some hygeine/cleanliness standards...

If this is the state with highest standards, I may have made my point.

Doubly so after I took the sample questions from the test. Glad you get to use that calculator for those elementary math questions.

Praxis: New Jersey
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:56 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 4,866,204 times
Reputation: 3302
If you make education degrees harder to get then you must also increase the pay that teachers receive, which equals higher taxes. America doesn't have the shortage of youth that most other developed countries have and we cannot afford to lower our teacher/student ratio.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:56 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,115,918 times
Reputation: 12774
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Why do you think that you must maintain a GPA of 3.5 in order to graduate college? That's just silly. Life is a bell curve.

Yeah, all teachers making less than $35k should have masters.
We should maintain a GPA of 3.5 so we don't produce a bunch of uneducated people. A bell curve of uneducated people is still bunch of uneducated people.

Why do you think that teachers making less than $35k should have masters? I disagree with that. I think teachers should be making more than $35k and should have a masters. Remember, these are the people teaching our children. I'd like them to be top notch and paid accordingly.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:02 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,115,918 times
Reputation: 12774
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i saw they had a lot of rankings..
"Overall state grade"
"Chances of Success"
"K-12 achievement"
"Standards, assessments, and accountability"
"Transitions and alignment"
"Teaching professions"
"School Finance"


how do they define "chances of success" ? I clinked the link to tell me more but they said I needed a subscription. why is this one more important than the others? i ask because South Carolina and New Jersey both scored a B- in the overall ranking.
"The Chance-for-Success Index, which grades the nation and states on 13 indicators capturing the critical role that education plays as a person moves from childhood, through the K-12 system, and into college and the workforce."

I chose Chances of Success because I thought it was most important of them. The last three are useless for measurement of the students. The Chances of Success is the closest to the Math Progress Index.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:02 PM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,182,020 times
Reputation: 14506
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
"The Chance-for-Success Index, which grades the nation and states on 13 indicators capturing the critical role that education plays as a person moves from childhood, through the K-12 system, and into college and the workforce."

I chose Chances of Success because I thought it was most important of them. The last three are useless for measurement of the students. The Chances of Success is the closest to the Math Progress Index.
i guess it depends on what you're trying to measure, the system, or the students. The list you posted seems like it would just tell you which states had the best parents and students, not the best educational system.

i honestly don't think there is any educational policy that South Carolina could conceivably implement that would enable it to compete statistically with Connecticut and New Jersey and Vermont, in terms of overall student achievement.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:07 PM
 
19,216 posts, read 12,461,938 times
Reputation: 2337
You think any K-12 teacher could diagram a sentence?

No!
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:09 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,115,918 times
Reputation: 12774
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i guess it depends on what you're trying to measure, the system, or the students. The list you posted seems like it would just tell you which states had the best parents and students, not the best educational system.

i honestly don't think there is any educational policy that South Carolina could conceivably implement that would enable it to compete statistically with Connecticut and New Jersey and Vermont.
My post was intended to show show well educated students are across the different states.

I don't know anything about (public) educational policy. Can you kindly explain what you mean and how the states differ?
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:10 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,696,319 times
Reputation: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Um. So I looked up the 'qualifications' on the NJ website. They include a degree, a test, passing some hygeine/cleanliness standards...

If this is the state with highest standards, I may have made my point.

Doubly so after I took the sample questions from the test. Glad you get to use that calculator for those elementary math questions.

Praxis: New Jersey
Okay, since you're making me do this, I will do it.
As someone who has actually done this, not just looked it up using Google...

* Bachelor's degree in education w/ appropriate GPA
* The above includes variable months of experience in student teaching
* All applicable PRAXIS tests, dependent on grade level, states in which to be certified (eg, I wanted to qualify for PA as well as NJ, so extra PRAXIS tests there), etc

THEN... If you are lucky enough to become hired, you don't have your teaching certification yet. You are only a provisional teacher.

You then have to teach (paid) for one year under a mentor
Implementation of the New Teacher Mentoring Regulations
which involves paying them for the mentoring (which can be of varying degrees of usefulness). At the time I did it, I had to pay $200 for this program.

You then need to keep up your qualifications regularly, attend conferences, write curricula, etc.

Hope this helps.
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