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Old 06-27-2011, 08:49 AM
 
1,650 posts, read 3,364,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Force View Post
My degree for teaching high school biology is basically pre-med with pedagogy/internship classes attached. It's hard enough

Most people "have a friend" or "always heard getting a teaching a degree was easy". This is not always the case and this broad generalization is not necessary.
Elementary education degrees are insanely easy. I didn't find college challenging at all. We just mainly focused on methods which we practiced with fellow classmates. Nothing prepared me for public school teaching.

Teaching degrees need to be more "real world" based. I would like to see a teacher education program designed by actual master public school teachers, administrators, and I would LOVE to see parents get involved in designing a teacher education program. Parents have zero say in what their child's future teacher is learning or even if they're learning how to teach.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:12 AM
 
613 posts, read 807,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Okay, since you're making me do this, I will do it.
As someone who has actually done this, not just looked it up using Google...

* Bachelor's degree in education w/ appropriate GPA
* The above includes variable months of experience in student teaching
* All applicable PRAXIS tests, dependent on grade level, states in which to be certified (eg, I wanted to qualify for PA as well as NJ, so extra PRAXIS tests there), etc

THEN... If you are lucky enough to become hired, you don't have your teaching certification yet. You are only a provisional teacher.

You then have to teach (paid) for one year under a mentor
Implementation of the New Teacher Mentoring Regulations
which involves paying them for the mentoring (which can be of varying degrees of usefulness). At the time I did it, I had to pay $200 for this program.

You then need to keep up your qualifications regularly, attend conferences, write curricula, etc.

Hope this helps.
I found all of the above to be quite easy, but it was a little scary the number of future teachers who struggled with all of the above. Also, many future teachers had changed their original major to elementary education after they realized they were unable to pass the classes in their original major.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati near
2,507 posts, read 3,351,758 times
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My students talk about 'hard' and 'easy' majors all of the time. I don't like this because I think everyone should work their hardest regardless of chosen field. On the other hand, there are majors that a large percentage of the student body are capable of completing and there are majors that require skills that are a bit more rare.

The quantitative skills for math, physics, chemistry, and computer science are relatively rare. I don't think the material is all that difficult for those with the aptitude, but as many on this board have said, many people just don't get higher science and math. On the other end of the spectrum, some of the humanities degrees also 'hard' in that they require a very specific aptitude that can be rare. A music major with a piano focus, for example, is not a degree that most of the student body has the aptitude to complete.

Elementary education is generally thought of as a major that every student has the aptitude to complete, although many do not have the temperament. Other majors in this category include communication, business marketing, and criminal justice. Fair or not, the perception at every institution that I have ever been connected to in academia is that education is a less competitive degree. I have had dozens of premeds fail out of O-chem and go on to get A's in education or business, but I have never had a student fail out of education classes then transfer into a science major and excel.

As a teacher myself, I appreciate and respect the work that teachers do. However, I do think that education degrees lose some of their value because there is very little 'weeding out' of mediocre students like there is in other disciplines. The hard question that I cannot answer is on what criteria should the 'weeding out' be based. If I knew, I'd probably be a dean at a prestigious university somewhere.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:05 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,772,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Unless you're a teacher, or have been trained as one, what makes you think that getting a degree in education is easy?
I am a teacher. I have a master's degree in my content and went back for postbac certification for teaching. Since then, I have periodically taken classes for recertification.

In all honesty, education classes are minimally demanding. I found them to be primarily composed of busywork that literally could have been covered in one-fourth of the time, and the rest was simple common sense or laughably ridiculous educational theory ungrounded in reality.

I learned a vast amount from the real teachers currently teaching -- from my cooperating teacher and from the one or two actual teachers they recruited to conduct workshops on actually useful topics (e.g., classroom management). If I were to be given the responsibility for restructuring how teachers are trained, I would begin by placing student teachers with master teachers, having them learn practical elements of their discipline from other master teachers in a workshop setting, and have the lightest possible dose of educational theory.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:11 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,772,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
You think any K-12 teacher could diagram a sentence?

No!
I can. I'm not a diagramming master, but I can diagram fairly well. However, I will say that I did teach myself and was never taught this in school.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:14 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,772,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
As a teacher myself, I appreciate and respect the work that teachers do. However, I do think that education degrees lose some of their value because there is very little 'weeding out' of mediocre students like there is in other disciplines. The hard question that I cannot answer is on what criteria should the 'weeding out' be based. If I knew, I'd probably be a dean at a prestigious university somewhere.
I would think one criterion should surely be this: Every teacher, regardless of whether s/he intends to teach elementary or high school, needs to have completed a B.A. or B.S. in a core content area (English, math, science, history) and passed all of her or his major classes with a minimum of a 3.0 cumulative. It is not too much to ask that an English teacher be able to make a B-minus in English.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Force View Post
My degree for teaching high school biology is basically pre-med with pedagogy/internship classes attached. It's hard enough

Most people "have a friend" or "always heard getting a teaching a degree was easy". This is not always the case and this broad generalization is not necessary.
A teaching degree is easy. It's the subject matter degree that is hard. My MAT was the easiest of my degrees by far. My bachelor in chemical engineering was the hardest. Ed classes are a cake walk. I'm not even sure why they make us take them.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
I would think one criterion should surely be this: Every teacher, regardless of whether s/he intends to teach elementary or high school, needs to have completed a B.A. or B.S. in a core content area (English, math, science, history) and passed all of her or his major classes with a minimum of a 3.0 cumulative. It is not too much to ask that an English teacher be able to make a B-minus in English.
ITA. Teachers should be people who were, themselves, at least B students and they should have a stand alone degree in their major.
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:00 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,122,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
I would think one criterion should surely be this: Every teacher, regardless of whether s/he intends to teach elementary or high school, needs to have completed a B.A. or B.S. in a core content area (English, math, science, history) and passed all of her or his major classes with a minimum of a 3.0 cumulative. It is not too much to ask that an English teacher be able to make a B-minus in English.
3.0?? Are you insane? Whats up with this tolerance for low GPAs? More like 3.6.
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:30 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,447,336 times
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There are poor teachers out there, we all know that. But making teaching degrees more difficult is not the answer. There is more to children not knowing basic skills, than "it is the teacher's fault".

I worked with many teachers, who were "subject matter experts", and horrible teachers. So, look at the skills needed for the job, before saying that teaching degrees need to be more difficult.

If anything else, I think that colleges often pass people in classes, who would make lousy teachers, and then...I had the "problem" when they were doing student teaching. I had one student, that I would NOT sign off on her paperwork, she was terrible, I could not even try to help her improve, because she would not listen to her problems, or take constructive information to improve. Her personality was not cut out to teach...She went to another school, they signed off her paperwork, after additional student teaching, but she was fired from her first job...could have predicted that one!
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