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Old 06-20-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,272 posts, read 49,833,895 times
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People keep talking about recruiting better teachers by paying more money for the job. It makes sense. Better competition generally brings better candidates.

After listening to the Miss America candidates (some of whom are future teachers) speak last night, I am reminded of how many of the people I know who teach (or hold the credentials) are really not...very...smart...

I propose we make obtaining teaching credentialing more difficult by actually making it HARD to graduate your training as a teacher.

Many other degrees/professions weed out the weak and incompetent by making the coursework very difficult and time-consuming.

For example, my pre-med INTRO chemistry class (also taken by other serious science majors) had a curve that purposely failed 40% of the students. The message was, "Hey...this is only getting tougher and you can't hack it (either bc of aptitude or commitment to the hard work/competition)." The people who did well had to really want it.

The investment of time and energy that it takes to obtain these degrees (as well as the competition) results in careers in more competitive fields that tend to yield higher pay.

Meanwhile, I know people who spent their entire college career drunk and played the '2.0 and go' game because they knew they could always fall back on teaching.

One might argue that it would lead to a shortage of teachers, but at the rate they're being laid off lately, I don't think that would be as much of a problem anymore.

I have always loved and respected teachers, and I have been brought up to revere them (Indian parents). They should be paid well - the future is in their hands. But maybe they should have to EARN that privilege...just as I have had to earn the privilege of holding someone's heart in my hand.

Discuss.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,077,568 times
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Unless you're a teacher, or have been trained as one, what makes you think that getting a degree in education is easy?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,272 posts, read 49,833,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Unless you're a teacher, or have been trained as one, what makes you think that getting a degree in education is easy?
Because I am very close to people who have completed it, and they pretty much all agree it's a joke. No offense.

Not saying teaching is a joke. Tough job. But seriously...?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:26 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,157 posts, read 39,250,114 times
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Many states have made it more difficult to obtain teaching degrees. In MD one must interview into the Education program your Junior year after taking all the preliminary academic requirements. In addition, to be awarded a full Certification in most states, one must pass the various PRAXIS exams for subject matter and general education.

I question if the people you referenced have actually received their teaching degrees and certifications yet or if they are on hold for pageantry.

Also, to be awarded the degree one must student teach, and that is becoming more difficult, too.

Much of the above is a result of NCLB which mandates "highly qualified" teachers and has really cut back on the overall numbers of emergency and provisional certifications. Or at least has put time limits on them.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,272 posts, read 49,833,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Many states have made it more difficult to obtain teaching degrees. In MD one must interview into the Education program your Junior year after taking all the preliminary academic requirements. In addition, to be awarded a full Certification in most states, one must pass the various PRAXIS exams for subject matter and general education.

I question if the people you referenced have actually received their teaching degrees and certifications yet or if they are on hold for pageantry.

Also, to be awarded the degree one must student teach, and that is becoming more difficult, too.

Much of the above is a result of NCLB which mandates "highly qualified" teachers and has really cut back on the overall numbers of emergency and provisional certifications. Or at least has put time limits on them.
So you're saying it's becoming harder? That's something to chew on.

And yes...all my friends HAVE their degrees and certification. This includes someone who got a perfect SAT score and someone who still can't manage you're and your (that's the friend who actually just received her certification)...and everything in between.

The various qualifications/certifications vary state-by-state, do they not?

I graduated college in the late '90s. At that time, the teaching thing was a 'fall back' for a lot of people bc it was easy to snap up 'just in case.'

It's a college degree plus a couple of extra classes and possibly and interview and a test or two. The college degree is already too easy to get your hands on...
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:31 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,157 posts, read 39,250,114 times
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I meant the pageant people you mentioned out if the box for their degree holding.

Yes, various states have differing requirements but, again, NCLB has somewhat changed that paradigm.

As far as a "fall back" that's always been the case. But to get certification one still has to hit all the marks. I graduated in the late 70's and didn't start teaching until I was 30, but I had been certified upon graduation several years earlier. And yes, the BS. ED was a fall back for me. Getting it was easier, at that time, than a BA (which in reality prepares you for nothing no matter the major) due to there being no foreign language requirement.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,272 posts, read 49,833,895 times
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Cool.

So do you not agree that making it even HARDER might strengthen our teaching pool?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:39 AM
 
3,269 posts, read 4,665,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Because I am very close to people who have completed it, and they pretty much all agree it's a joke. No offense.

Not saying teaching is a joke. Tough job. But seriously...?
looking at the current condition we're in, the joke's on us.

or on "u.s."

i think alot of people choose to linger in academia because they know they'd get chewed up and spit out in corporate america.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:42 AM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,160,783 times
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It's not just teaching degrees. Do you know how many people graduate college with low GPAs below 3.0? They should just require all students to maintain a GPA of 3.5 in order to graduate. Further, professors should make sure the students know the material and not just play curve games.

Regarding teachers, I feel that they should all have masters degrees. And all professors should have PHDs.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,157 posts, read 39,250,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Cool.

So do you not agree that making it even HARDER might strengthen our teaching pool?
Maybe. Where do you stop, though? Teaching is many times intuitive, the best instructors I ever had were the NCOs in AOCS and the flight instructors in Flight School. Not the officers teaching the academics, especially in OCS (and there were a couple good ones).

Education courses can be difficult, and don't forget that those courses aren't the major, subject matter is. Teaching candidates still have to take math, science and electives in addition to the subject major courses.

My impression from when I was in college (73-77) was that the easiest major was Business, especially Marketing and Management.
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