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Old 06-28-2011, 10:56 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In my district, only about 20% of taxpayers have a kid in school. The other 80% (obviously) do not. Teachers will not garner the support of these 20% if they continue with rants such as the above.
Exactly! Some people just don't get it.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
Exactly! Some people just don't get it.
What are we supposed to do? Lie?

The fact is, parents have more power than anyone when it comes to their children's education. With power comes responsibility. I would think that parents would be glad the power is ours. I would hate to think I was handing my kids over to a system that may or may not share my views.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
I expect it's your definition of "power" and who has it. Not the least of which is the erroneous tendency to assume parents are one monolithic structure.

I have quite a bit of power over parts of my kids' education (not the least because I live in a state with liberal homeschooling laws, but that's another discussion). However, there are things I do not: other voters, school board policy and budgeting, anything handed down from the state (because god knows Gov. Voldem--er, Rick Scott-- wasn't my idea), Federal law, other kids' behavior...the list is endless. I am one voter. The recent near vote for Cherokee tribal chief notwithstanding, one vote rarely swings that much power. Especially in a diverse metropolitan area (and some of us do live in those), you're simply not going to get voters banding together to fix anything, because the definition of "fixing" is not clear cut.
No monlithic structure but parents working together can affect more change than can teachers, teachers unions or administrators. However, you must be involved to do this. If you take the attitude that the government subjects you to this and you have no power, then you give up your power but that is your fault. Parents, also, determine the attitude their children have towards education and things like whether or not students respect teachers.

Federal law takes time to change but it can be changed. Local issues are easier but the biggest impact parents can have is just making sure their kids arrive at school ready to learn, respectful of others and with the right attitude. You have no idea how this can minimize what the government does. When I don't have to deal with discipline issues or repeat things because your child was too tired, missed class or just not paying attention because they haven't been taught that their job is to learn while in school and to be respectful of teachers, surprise, surprise, I have MORE time to teach. If I don't have to make phone calls home because your child is doing their work and behaving as expected, I have more time to prep.

Parents determine how many hours it takes me to do my job well. However, there comes a point when I will put in no more hours. That's as well as the job will get done.

Start with the power you have. Make sure your children are taught to respect teachers, do their homework, arrive at school having enough rest, fed and with the proper supplies. Hold them accountable if they don't pay attention in class. You'd be surprised how motivated kids can be when they know the adults in their lives hold them accountable for their own learning/grades. It's not the kids who are barely passing my class who come to me for help. It's the ones getting a B- who have parents who only accept B+'s. It's the ones who want to get into the good colleges and need that A. I wish I got half the effort from the bottom 20% of my class I get from them. Unfortunatetly, teaching seems to have it's own 80/20 rule but it's not a good one. 80% of my effort goes into the bottom 20% of my students with very little results to show for it.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-28-2011 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,170,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No monlithic structure but parents working together can affect more change than can teachers, teachers unions or administrators. However, you must be involved to do this. If you take the attitude that the government subjects you to this and you have no power, then you give up your power but that is your fault. Parents, also, determine the attitude their children have towards education and things like whether or not students respect teachers.

Federal law takes time to change but it can be changed. Local issues are easier but the biggest impact parents can have is just making sure their kids arrive at school ready to learn, respectful of others and with the right attitude. You have no idea how this can minimize what the government does. When I don't have to deal with discipline issues or repeat things because your child was too tired, missed class or just not paying attention because they haven't been taught that their job is to learn while in school and to be respectful of teachers, surprise, surprise, I have MORE time to teach. If I don't have to make phone calls home because your child is doing their work and behaving as expected, I have more time to prep.

Parents determine how many hours it takes me to do my job well. However, there comes a point when I will put in no more hours. That's as well as the job will get done.

Start with the power you have. Make sure your children are taught to respect teachers, do their homework, arrive at school having enough rest, fed and with the proper supplies. Hold them accountable if they don't pay attention in class. You'd be surprised how motivated kids can be when they know the adults in their lives hold them accountable for their own learning/grades. It's not the kids who are barely passing my class who come to me for help. It's the ones getting a B- who have parents who only accept B+'s. It's the ones who want to get into the good colleges and need that A. I wish I got half the effort from the bottom 20% of my class I get from them. Unfortunatetly, teaching seems to have it's own 80/20 rule but it's not a good one. 80% of my effort goes into the bottom 20% of my students with very little results to show for it.

Are we supposed to be fixing the system, improving the budget, or making your life easier (which, frankly, is not my prime motivator)? Your arguments are all over the map, and I'm pretty sure no amount of sleep or breakfast (hot or otherwise) is going to change the fact that XXXX County, Florida, thinks the superintendent's car allowance is more important than a classroom aide's salary or that NCLB remains unfunded.
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Old 06-28-2011, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,758,930 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Are we supposed to be fixing the system, improving the budget, or making your life easier (which, frankly, is not my prime motivator)? Your arguments are all over the map, and I'm pretty sure no amount of sleep or breakfast (hot or otherwise) is going to change the fact that XXXX County, Florida, thinks the superintendent's car allowance is more important than a classroom aide's salary or that NCLB remains unfunded.
Parents should start by making it easier for their kids to learn. Kids who taught to behave, how to treat others, who are taught to value education, who are held acountable, who actually go to school, pay attention, do their work and arrive well fed, well rested and with the proper tools are a whole lot easier to teach and they learn more.

It's not so much about making my life easier as it is giving me the ability to actually teach your child as opposed to handling 16 other issues having nothing to do with educating kids. If it were just about my job being hard or easy, I wouldn't worry about it too much but it's about more than that. It's about whether or not the kids in my class can learn to an acceptable level. Hungry and tired kids don't learn well and neither do kids who are not there and they slow the rest of the class down. Time taken to get Johnny a pencil and Suzy some paper is time lost in class. Dealing with misbehaving and disrespectful kids takes away class time for everyone. As a teacher I have no easy fixes for these issues. I wish I did, but I don't. Parents have the fixes for these issues.

As a parent, you'd want to make the teacher's job easier WRT dealing with your child because the easier it is, the more your children will get taught and the more they will learn. In my last school, I spent so much time and energy on misbehavior, disrespect and student's refusal to work that I couldn't come close to teaching my content. This past year, I was in a school where, for the most part, the kids do their work, respect their teachers and don't misbehave. I taught two full units more material and in chemistry, the way it builds, that is very significant.

Still, I had kids who didn't do their work, didn't show up to class and didn't pay attention. With fewer of them, I could let them sink or swim and put the onus on them to get extra help after hours. Back when this described half of my class, the upper half just waited until I'd given up on the lower half learning the material (rarely did I make the 70% proficiency goal of the school. It's impossible when Johnny doesn't think Johnny is responsible in any way shape or form for Johnny's education). Unfortunately, it doesn't take too many students not doing what they should to really mess things up.

My arguments are all over the map because the problems need to be attacked on different fronts. Parents can't directly impact the class size issue but they can make sure their kids are rested, fed and ready to learn. They can teach their children to respect their teachers and be active participants in their own educations. The class size issue is one that has to be handled in school board meetings and state funding meetings and the more voices heard there, the more likely parents will be listened to.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,170,734 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Parents should start by making it easier for their kids to learn. Kids who taught to behave, how to treat others, who are taught to value education, who are held acountable, who actually go to school, pay attention, do their work and arrive well fed, well rested and with the proper tools are a whole lot easier to teach and they learn more.

It's not so much about making my life easier as it is giving me the ability to actually teach your child as opposed to handling 16 other issues having nothing to do with educating kids. If it were just about my job being hard or easy, I wouldn't worry about it too much but it's about more than that. It's about whether or not the kids in my class can learn to an acceptable level. Hungry and tired kids don't learn well and neither do kids who are not there and they slow the rest of the class down. Time taken to get Johnny a pencil and Suzy some paper is time lost in class. Dealing with misbehaving and disrespectful kids takes away class time for everyone. As a teacher I have no easy fixes for these issues. I wish I did, but I don't. Parents have the fixes for these issues.

As a parent, you'd want to make the teacher's job easier WRT dealing with your child because the easier it is, the more your children will get taught and the more they will learn. In my last school, I spent so much time and energy on misbehavior, disrespect and student's refusal to work that I couldn't come close to teaching my content. This past year, I was in a school where, for the most part, the kids do their work, respect their teachers and don't misbehave. I taught two full units more material and in chemistry, the way it builds, that is very significant.

Still, I had kids who didn't do their work, didn't show up to class and didn't pay attention. With fewer of them, I could let them sink or swim and put the onus on them to get extra help after hours. Back when this described half of my class, the upper half just waited until I'd given up on the lower half learning the material (rarely did I make the 70% proficiency goal of the school. It's impossible when Johnny doesn't think Johnny is responsible in any way shape or form for Johnny's education). Unfortunately, it doesn't take too many students not doing what they should to really mess things up.

My arguments are all over the map because the problems need to be attacked on different fronts. Parents can't directly impact the class size issue but they can make sure their kids are rested, fed and ready to learn. They can teach their children to respect their teachers and be active participants in their own educations. The class size issue is one that has to be handled in school board meetings and state funding meetings and the more voices heard there, the more likely parents will be listened to.
And in fact, my children have been taught to respect adults, do their work, go to bed at a reasonable hour, etc (though I can't wave my hands and make the weirdness that surrounds my daughter go away). Nor can I control whatever crap any other parents do, or don't do.
As for voices being heard in board meetings-- they allow a certain number of people to address certain agenda items, for a limited amount of time. I don't know how they do things "up north", but Florida truly is a banana republic. Hence my extremely limited involvement with the schools.

As for the part in red...<sigh>. Yeah, I'm familiar with the phenomenon. Schools wonder why parents of capable children are fleeing in droves. This would be why.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:24 AM
 
920 posts, read 1,473,058 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In my district, only about 20% of taxpayers have a kid in school. The other 80% (obviously) do not. Teachers will not garner the support of these 20% if they continue with rants such as the above.
That's garbage. Sorry but that's the best description. Parents are exactly the ones who have the power because ultimately they're citizens first and parents second. And it's truly citizens which create the country/government/education system that exists. If the legislature is corrupt and criminal,it's because the citizens tolerate such things. If a school district is corrupt and inefficient its because the citizens tolerate such things. And of course that's going to be found in every aspect of our lives,including the classroom. What we tolerate and accept is a reflection of us. If that's harsh too bad, it's way past time for a reality check.

Furthermore, what good has it done to be compliant towards any percentage of the population, giving them only what they want to hear. The entire system that we live in is in crisis, and being diplomatic hasn't seemed to have done much of anything. It seems not a problem to trash teachers or unions,but if a teacher tells it the way it is, we get someone like you saying that its a rant. Well maybe its about time people begin to rant about a corrupt system....
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,043 posts, read 98,964,874 times
Reputation: 31532
Quote:
Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
That's garbage. Sorry but that's the best description. Parents are exactly the ones who have the power because ultimately they're citizens first and parents second. And it's truly citizens which create the country/government/education system that exists. If the legislature is corrupt and criminal,it's because the citizens tolerate such things. If a school district is corrupt and inefficient its because the citizens tolerate such things. And of course that's going to be found in every aspect of our lives,including the classroom. What we tolerate and accept is a reflection of us. If that's harsh too bad, it's way past time for a reality check.

Furthermore, what good has it done to be compliant towards any percentage of the population, giving them only what they want to hear. The entire system that we live in is in crisis, and being diplomatic hasn't seemed to have done much of anything. It seems not a problem to trash teachers or unions,but if a teacher tells it the way it is, we get someone like you saying that its a rant. Well maybe its about time people begin to rant about a corrupt system....
"Someone like me", eh? The OP started a thread entitle "Blame the Parents!!!" (She always seems to use three exclamation points.) She lost my support right there.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:10 AM
 
Location: Central, IL
3,408 posts, read 3,465,671 times
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Well, since I believe there needs to be far more cuts taking place nationwide, I can't say I would team up with the teachers.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:56 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,942 times
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Originally Posted by Jennifer5221 View Post
I am a parent and a teacher. I feel like if all the parents could get together and do something then we could make a difference in all the cuts.

But here in Idaho at least it seems like the parents feel powerless and dont know what to do.

What could they do...and if they did there would be a lot of them
Yea, I think the parents have already RISEN up and made a difference by passing the school budgets and subsequently paying higher property taxes. Not only have cuts been avoided, but teacher salaries have risen while the average worker in my area hasn't seen a raise in years or has had their salary cut.(Excluding LIRR employees, whose salaries are considerably higher than the teachers???)
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