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Old 07-15-2011, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,758,751 times
Reputation: 14583

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
As someone who wasn't supposed to do well in college, I guess you're glad someone thought you were a special snowflake.
HUH? No one thought I was a special snowflake. Where are you getting that from? I'm simply saying that the fact I was placed on a college bound track paid off in my case. You don't know who is and who is not college material until they get to college. No one would have predicted I would go to college at all let alone graduate in the top of my class. No one thought I was a special snowflake. In fact, I was treated just like everyone else. Treating me just like everyone else paid off. If they'd tried to predict where I belonged in 9th grade, I would have been tracked into a vocational program because I wasn't a special snowflake. I was a typical low performing kid who happened to have high potential. Potential that never would have been realized if I'd been written off to a voc-ed program in high school.

I, actually, do see the logic of trying to put everyone on the high track, however, I think everyone needs a plan B because some will not make it or won't want it. I have a brother who, intellectually, puts me to shame who has no desire to get an education. He's happy as an auto mechanic who happens to read really heady stuff in his spare time.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:03 AM
 
180 posts, read 349,890 times
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How so about the UK? Where did you get that info? The UK has a meaningful college system where the public colleges are the best and attract the best students, paid for by the taxpayer. The other schools are private and accept the lessor students and the parents, not the public, pay for them. The taxpayer should not be responsible for anybody's "snowflake".
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:06 AM
 
180 posts, read 349,890 times
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Good post! The more disciplined approach along with teaching basic skills worked far better than today's methods. No wonder other countries have more skilled young people. Maybe ours are too busy on their cellphones while being admitted to college for just applying.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:32 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,326,351 times
Reputation: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCavalier View Post
Good post! The more disciplined approach along with teaching basic skills worked far better than today's methods. No wonder other countries have more skilled young people. Maybe ours are too busy on their cellphones while being admitted to college for just applying.
Or watching trash on TV. I couldn't believe that a university paid big bucks for that Jersey Shore chick to speak there.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,539 posts, read 9,948,467 times
Reputation: 9056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
HUH? No one thought I was a special snowflake. Where are you getting that from? I'm simply saying that the fact I was placed on a college bound track paid off in my case. You don't know who is and who is not college material until they get to college. No one would have predicted I would go to college at all let alone graduate in the top of my class. No one thought I was a special snowflake. In fact, I was treated just like everyone else. Treating me just like everyone else paid off. If they'd tried to predict where I belonged in 9th grade, I would have been tracked into a vocational program because I wasn't a special snowflake. I was a typical low performing kid who happened to have high potential. Potential that never would have been realized if I'd been written off to a voc-ed program in high school.

I, actually, do see the logic of trying to put everyone on the high track, however, I think everyone needs a plan B because some will not make it or won't want it. I have a brother who, intellectually, puts me to shame who has no desire to get an education. He's happy as an auto mechanic who happens to read really heady stuff in his spare time.
You denigrate your students all the time about how ill-prepared they seem for higher education. Luckily for you, somebody looked past those same flaws in yourself and gave you a chance and you made the most of it. But your current students who might have similar potential you deign as special snowflakes when somebody wants to advocate for them getting a chance. It's just ironic.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,182,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
You weren't supposed to notice.
The internet has blown open many school myths unfortunately.

-I think especially grievous is the lack of middle east history. Is middle east history ignored in school, so then we can be told what to think about it by politicans (or the military), or the media? Hmmmm.

We've probably spent more in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 15 years than we have in our schools. Isn't that kind of an irony.

Try finding the CIA's involvement in Afghanistan or with Bin Laden in your local highschool history book. Keep looking. You won't find it.

-The schools want kids to know how to share. And how to collaborate in groups. And celebrate their self esteem! Not have iron convinction, and march on washington, protesting the federal reserve, the constitution, foreign policy, etc.

The whole self esteem movement I think has caught on, to cover up for injustices. Why would you want to artifically make kids feel good about themselves? And do it for 10-20 years? I think its done so they won't think anything is wrong when they're 22-30. They are "okay", quote un quote. Its used to cover up a more competitive real economy, declining wages, inflation, increase in poverty, loss of manufacturing, watering down of college, debt, etc.

-It's funny how the whole issue of ethics, injustice, abuse of power, greed, manipulation, etc....all absent from highschool. I think they don't want kids to be able to form an opinion...on what is an injustice. What is too much? What is too powerful? Should there be a limit on power....right at a time when the rich/poor gap is the widest in 70 years, 40 million on food stamps, etc.

Right at a time when the banks are bailed out? When we nationalize parts of the economy.

I was reading this article last night, ap classes have been watered down...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/26/ed...pagewanted=all

From the comments, I would say the system has been going down since the 60's. A geometry teacher thought the last good geometry book was from the 60's! Horrible. I think every student since the 70's has been special ed to some degree. All the puffery, self esteem, "feel good-ism", its been used to cover up whats been going downhill.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:30 PM
 
180 posts, read 349,890 times
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Nah! Students need to sink or swim after getting a chance to succeed. If they do not have the skills, then they need to do something else. How many chances have the inner city students had and failed? Affirmative action, lower standards, more money per student spent on them, and the focus of virtually every social program. Most of the education stats are lower because of them.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,758,751 times
Reputation: 14583
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
You denigrate your students all the time about how ill-prepared they seem for higher education. Luckily for you, somebody looked past those same flaws in yourself and gave you a chance and you made the most of it. But your current students who might have similar potential you deign as special snowflakes when somebody wants to advocate for them getting a chance. It's just ironic.
They are, and I try to do something about that. You're mixing arguments here. What I denigrate in my students is lack of effort, lack of preparation and laziness. I didn't say they shouldn't take my class. I just think we should separate them so that the kids who want to do the work can go faster.

And I wasn't given some special chance. I, simply, wasn't written off to a voc-ed program. I'm not keen on deciding in 9th grade who is and who isn't college matieral. IMO, that is too soon to make that determination but we can place kids based on effort and past performance to make it easier to teach to their level. I took the same classes everyone else did and I'm not saying my students shouldn't. I think we should have multiple levels where placement depends on the level of the student. I also think students should have a plan B. Who knows, maybe I would have liked my plan B better than engineering.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:28 AM
 
160 posts, read 278,286 times
Reputation: 248
What time frame?
When the "No Child Left Behind Act" was signed. So about 10 years ago

What changes were made to the system occurred during this time period?

The implementation of mandated standardized testing. This practice has allowed for only certain basics to be taught in school as opposed to the fundamentals needed to build upon as a child progresses in his/her respective grade. When you teach only basics, the child misses a HUGE chunk of information needed to process additional, unfamiliar information. It reduces comprehension skills, reasoning skills, etc. which are needed for successful learning. Schools these days are no longer concerned about TEACHING but more concerned about producing the numbers needed in order to obtain and maintain accreditation. It has really become a numbers game as opposed to being concerned about a student's academics.

It's really sickening and having worked in the school system, it will only get worse.

I liken public schools to for profit colleges. Only in it for the numbers but could care less about education.

It's a shame that many parents have sought private schools, charters school, etc. for quality education for their children.

What corrective action has been taken and the result from that?

No corrective action has been taken. But what can be done is to vote these clueless politicians out of office. They've done this. And make the parents more accountable as well. \

As a matter of fact, it's getting worse. I'm sure that I will homeschool my kids when I have them. I would hate to be a taxpayer and know that my tax dollars are not being spent wisely.


I am sure this area has been studied and we know what is wrong and how to fix it. Right?
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
3,166 posts, read 6,948,585 times
Reputation: 7470
It began to decline in the 80's, when people stopped getting married before having children. When men stopped being fathers and co-parents in the home.

When I taught HS, I had NO STUDENTS who had a father in the home. Most were raised in group homes or by grandma's.

No one criticizing schools ever mentions that the PARENTS are primarily responsible for their children's learning, NOT teachers. My parents taught me to read at the age of 3 and 4. I went to Kindergarten already knowing how to read. Does that happen nowadays? Almost never.
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