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Old 07-17-2011, 09:44 PM
 
16,083 posts, read 17,880,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses61 View Post
It began to decline in the 80's, when people stopped getting married before having children. When men stopped being fathers and co-parents in the home.

When I taught HS, I had NO STUDENTS who had a father in the home. Most were raised in group homes or by grandma's.

No one criticizing schools ever mentions that the PARENTS are primarily responsible for their children's learning, NOT teachers. My parents taught me to read at the age of 3 and 4. I went to Kindergarten already knowing how to read. Does that happen nowadays? Almost never.
This is not true. Almost every child in afluent suburbs learns to read early. OTOH, it makes little difference to learning at what age you learn to read. For most students, pushing them ahead does not help at all. In countries where you see high student achievement, school in the early ages are play based. Reading is often not taught until kids are 7, 8 or 9 and they quickly pick it up because they are ready for it.

In the suburb I live in now, there are two parents in *most* homes and there are many stay at home moms. There are also many homeschoolers. You cannot generalize from place to place or from time to time.

When I taught high school in an inner city Mexican neighborhood, there were a lot of homes with two parents. Many dads were working more than one job to make ends meet. Kids did, however, have problems because the moms often did not speak much English, so helping them with homework was pretty impossible. All situations are different.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
 
160 posts, read 277,980 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses61 View Post
It began to decline in the 80's, when people stopped getting married before having children. When men stopped being fathers and co-parents in the home.

When I taught HS, I had NO STUDENTS who had a father in the home. Most were raised in group homes or by grandma's.

No one criticizing schools ever mentions that the PARENTS are primarily responsible for their children's learning, NOT teachers. My parents taught me to read at the age of 3 and 4. I went to Kindergarten already knowing how to read. Does that happen nowadays? Almost never.
That's because society has made baby mama-dom and baby-daddy-dom acceptable.

The family structure is all screwed up. Add in uneducated parents and there's the disaster.

We should do like China and allow for a permit to be required before having kids or have a one child policy. Maybe so many people won't be popping out bastard kids they can't afford or care less about their education.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere Arkansas
3,326 posts, read 2,716,096 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It depends on who you ask. My parents thought they got a great education but they were educated in a time when the norm was to drop out of school, like my dad did. I'm not sure it has declined given that we now educate everyone. What we have failed to do is match pace with several countries that are beating our pants off.
We are a multicultural nation where not all cultures/sub-cultures place a value on education. You cannot, fairly, compare us to other mono-cultures that do place a high priority on education.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:21 AM
 
35 posts, read 41,132 times
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It began in the 80's right after they started showing all those commercials about the US being ranked 14 in education. From then on it became all about the numbers and less about the learning process or an appreciation for education which goes well beyond the class room.

This is also when school programs such as speech therapy were cut. A particular sore spot since it left me with a partial lisp. I have 50 S's in my name. It really pithsses me off.

Education is all about the numbers. Standardized test scores. There's just so many tests. Attendance rates. Assembly line education. Not enough time is spent on mastering concepts. No focus on research, DIALOGUE, and teamwork. This goes well beyond high school.

I know and am willing to supplement my daughter's eduction. I'm a fast learner; she is not. All I ask is that she put forth the effort and behaves well in school. She does that. Education is valued in our home. She asks me questions. I used to answer her outright but past few years I've told her to look it up and provide me with an answer just to so see how she responds. We live in the internet age where we have so much information at our fingertips and mostly free yet we know less aren't willing to seek out information and expect it to be given. I can't believe how many people come to CD alone asking questions that could be answered with quick search. These are adults. These are adults with access to a computer and the internet. Why do we expect more from people who have less? By placing more and more work on the parents we've put kids kids of undereducated parents at a disadvantage. It becomes a vicious cycle where there's generational underachievement, dropouts, illiteracy... stagnation.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
973 posts, read 1,489,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
We are a multicultural nation where not all cultures/sub-cultures place a value on education. You cannot, fairly, compare us to other mono-cultures that do place a high priority on education.

AMEN!!!!! And that is why Finland is number 1.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
165 posts, read 253,665 times
Reputation: 192
You want to know why? employees are easier to manage when they don't know what's going on.

welcome to America Inc.

What do you think is happening around the world? Spain just recently figured it out. Once it gets real bad here, I hope for the same.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:56 PM
 
579 posts, read 752,965 times
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Both of my parents are retired educators, and here is their opinion... I have no idea if it's the "real" reason. They started teaching in the 1960s and retired in the 1990s. They said they saw a marked decline in the quality of students entering K and 1 classes starting in the 1970s. Whereas they used to have a class about half full of what today would be considered bright/ gifted students, they would have maybe 1 or 2 students like that per class.

Their conclusion was the birth rate among the more educated, affluent sectors of society was declining, which led to a decline in the quality of students entering the classroom. To put it bluntly-- smart, educated people started limiting their family size to 1, 2, or 0 kids; while not so smart, and not so educated people kept their birthrate up.

Second to this, brilliant women used to have few options other than education and nursing if they wanted to work. In the 1970s those women began branching into other careers because there were better and more lucrative options. It's rare you find a truly brilliant elementary school teacher these days. A lot of them are nice people, and good with kids, but brilliant, no.
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman01 View Post
We are a multicultural nation where not all cultures/sub-cultures place a value on education. You cannot, fairly, compare us to other mono-cultures that do place a high priority on education.
But multi-national corporations are comparing and hiring college educated in other countries. India, China, Brazil and upcoming Singapore and Costa Rica where the math/science is heavily emphasized.

Fair or not, internationally we are slipping in math, science and overall literacy.
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
165 posts, read 253,665 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mermaid825 View Post
Both of my parents are retired educators, and here is their opinion... I have no idea if it's the "real" reason. They started teaching in the 1960s and retired in the 1990s. They said they saw a marked decline in the quality of students entering K and 1 classes starting in the 1970s. Whereas they used to have a class about half full of what today would be considered bright/ gifted students, they would have maybe 1 or 2 students like that per class.

Their conclusion was the birth rate among the more educated, affluent sectors of society was declining, which led to a decline in the quality of students entering the classroom. To put it bluntly-- smart, educated people started limiting their family size to 1, 2, or 0 kids; while not so smart, and not so educated people kept their birthrate up.

Second to this, brilliant women used to have few options other than education and nursing if they wanted to work. In the 1970s those women began branching into other careers because there were better and more lucrative options. It's rare you find a truly brilliant elementary school teacher these days. A lot of them are nice people, and good with kids, but brilliant, no.
Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb

Everyone thought this movie was "stupid" but that might reflect the current population who has absolutely no awareness for concepts and metaphors (all signs of intelligence.) This is classic social commentary done with humor. Shame the movie didn't do better it's DEAD ON for America.
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:03 PM
 
25,084 posts, read 14,275,890 times
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Before we address the national issue of education u have to look at the states and counties. In my neck of the woods our state is about 47th in education. There are only 2 or 3 states worse off. When did it begin to decline... We never showed up nationally, but locally when the Republicans decided education was not a worth wild venture for the working class poor is when education really started to decline. No meaningful dollars allocated for the classroom and teacher development. Instead they encouraged the opening of many private Charter Schools to open. These schools are for profit and the standard and quality of education varies greatly. This justified not intervening in the failing inner city schools. I guess the democrats were content not to fight... It is too bad the quality of education is a political issue and not a right... It does not matter how much the Federal government says we are going to advance education "No Child left behind." If it is not happening at the local levels, it is not going to change and many kids are going to continue to be left behind.
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