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Old 07-05-2011, 09:49 PM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 6,199,824 times
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Workfare not welfare...

Let profitable cos. (not gvts or nonprofits) hungry for skilled workers design own exams to test kids who want to compete for full, merit, not need/aff action-based, scholarships to top engineering colleges (not Luddite lib arts nonsense), paid summer internships at said cos. and poss. post-grad employment at said cos.

Even alleged poors in US (who cares abt Third World welfare; smartest, often poor, kids in India have been figuring out how to gain admission to US' top engg grad schools for past 50yrs) seem to find cash for many $100 sneakers, $100+/mo/pet, "vacations", cable TV w/premium sports/movie channels, enough junk food to stay obese, recreational drugs, etc etc...those who really seek to move up in world can figure out what computing or knowledge or analytic skills are useful to employers who have most lucrative jobs...such stuff costs very little esp in a tech era when such data costs keep falling every yr
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:06 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,502,858 times
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What is your evidence that childhood use of laptops, tablets, etc. will lead to the analytical skills required of a future tech worker? Want to take a guess as to when my spouse, who makes a very generous living designing computer infrastructure, first owned a computer? He was a junior at university, and he bought it himself.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Workfare not welfare...

Let profitable cos. (not gvts or nonprofits) . . . .
"Let profitable companies" assure us that every child in the world has safe drinking water. Let profitable companies guarantee human rights everywhere. Let profitable companies ensure that every family lives in dignity, without fear of cold or hunger. Let profitable companies combat crime and injustice. Let profitable companies ensure peace, by refusing to manufacture and sell weapons. Let profitable companies pay fair wages and end workplace discrimination.

I keep letting them, but it's not happening.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:04 PM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,241,612 times
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We did fine with only a pencil and paper back in my day. Just saying
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:53 AM
 
3,853 posts, read 11,422,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Why are tablets any better than laptops? Is it the physical ergonomics? Anything else besides form factor?
Smaller, lighter, ease of use, "always on", 3g connection etc.

Laptops in the classroom are still rather bulky. A tablet can be carried by the child in their backpack without any burden by the teacher.

Quote:
We did fine with only a pencil and paper back in my day. Just saying
Doesn't matter. These days kids are expected to learn more and learn faster. Times are changing and we can't have this mentality of, "well in my day, we didn't have cars, so why buy a car?" holding us back. I know how old timers are. Afraid of change.

Quote:
What is your evidence that childhood use of laptops, tablets, etc. will lead to the analytical skills required of a future tech worker? Want to take a guess as to when my spouse, who makes a very generous living designing computer infrastructure, first owned a computer? He was a junior at university, and he bought it himself.
Do you really need a study to find this out? If laptops/computers weren't useful to students then college students wouldn't bother using them.

Quote:
Let profitable cos. (not gvts or nonprofits) hungry for skilled workers design own exams to test kids who want to compete for full, merit, not need/aff action-based, scholarships to top engineering colleges (not Luddite lib arts nonsense), paid summer internships at said cos. and poss. post-grad employment at said cos.
They already do this but its mostly done internally. Its cheaper to train within the company than to go to an overpriced college/university.

Quote:
Even alleged poors in US (who cares abt Third World welfare; smartest, often poor, kids in India have been figuring out how to gain admission to US' top engg grad schools for past 50yrs) seem to find cash for many $100 sneakers, $100+/mo/pet, "vacations", cable TV w/premium sports/movie channels, enough junk food to stay obese, recreational drugs, etc etc...those who really seek to move up in world can figure out what computing or knowledge or analytic skills are useful to employers who have most lucrative jobs...such stuff costs very little esp in a tech era when such data costs keep falling every yr
???
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
Smaller, lighter, ease of use, "always on", 3g connection etc.

Laptops in the classroom are still rather bulky. A tablet can be carried by the child in their backpack without any burden by the teacher.



Doesn't matter. These days kids are expected to learn more and learn faster. Times are changing and we can't have this mentality of, "well in my day, we didn't have cars, so why buy a car?" holding us back. I know how old timers are. Afraid of change.



Do you really need a study to find this out? If laptops/computers weren't useful to students then college students wouldn't bother using them.



They already do this but its mostly done internally. Its cheaper to train within the company than to go to an overpriced college/university.
I challenge what is in bold. What MORE are we asking students to learn? Are we asking that they learn more english? chemistry? math? biology? history? music? in a given year? -- No. The only "more" they're being asked to learn is computer technology itself! However, that being the case, it does make sense to put that technology into the hands of the students. Then we could treat computers like the tools they are instead of a separate subject to be learned in school.

FTR: I teach chemistry and I, definitely, teach less chemistry than I learned when I was in high school. Back when I took chemistry, you were expected to keep up or not be in the class. Today the class is expected to slow down if the student's aren't keeping up so a lot less is taught. I think most teachers would agree that they teach less than they learned as students in the same class. We didn't used to teach to the bottom of the class like we do now.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-09-2011 at 03:12 AM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
We did fine with only a pencil and paper back in my day. Just saying
Yes, but, students who graduate able to use computers are way ahead of kids who can only use pencil and paper these days.

Computers are not necessary to learn the basics, however, teaching computers alongside of the basics allows for mastery of the technology at the same time the student is learning the basics.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,160,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
While your idea is generous, here are some facts that you should take into account.

In most underdeveloped countries in the world, where education is most critically needed, primary education is not free. It can cost as much as ten or twenty dollars to enrol a child in school, and for lack of that ten bucks, many families cannot send their children to school at all. There are probably tens of millions of such children, who have never seen the inside of a school room, and never will.

Assume, through mass production, that the tablets or computers you envisage can be produced and distributed for $200, and that electricity exists in the village to recharge them. Instead of enriching the education of one child, the same expenditure can pay the wages of a competent, qualified teacher for a month, who can then teach 40 children to read. Or a whole year of school fees can be paid for twenty children, who would otherwise never be exposed to formal education at all.

Although, the child's family might resent having that money spend on education, instead of a minimum survival diet or safe drinking water.

In short, when you consider the tens of millions of children who will never get any education at all, nor even live long enough to finish school if they had one, your "tablet to every pupil" is little more than sugary frosting on a very hollow cake.

The leading cause of death in under-developed Africa is diarrheal dehydration caused by water-borne pathogens. That kills more people there than cancer or heart disease or Aids. Safe drinking water for quite a bit of the world can be provided, for the quarter of a trillion dollars that you want to spend on tablets for a half a billion children, many of whom don't go to school at all.

Thank you for your generosity, but please reconsider how to direct its benefit.
Bears repeating.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
They're not; they're just the flavor of the month. Students in poor nations could probably benefit more from other things first...such as hospitals and clean drinking water (not to mention functional government institutions).

But that's a lot harder to do, so we'll just give them a free iPad and a month-long trial to Netflix! Yippie!
I think peole appease their conscience with these programs with the idea being that if they are educated they can fix their own problems. However, Maslow's heirarchy says otherwise. An educated thirsty person is no better off than an uneducated thirsty person.

Not too long ago, our church spent $300 to put in a well for a village. That had way more impact on the quality of life for the village....of course this now means more children will live, their population will increase and they'll need even more water and then there's the problem of what happens when the aquaduct dries up.... People want to help, they just don't know how.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:58 PM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,833,735 times
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Here's a better idea


YouTube - ‪Bicycle Powered Water Pump and Sand Filter‬‏

and another
The Roundabout: Harnessing Kid Power to Pump Water! : TreeHugger
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