U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-19-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: 92037
4,631 posts, read 8,581,479 times
Reputation: 1931

Advertisements

After 11 pages in this thread, I feel that this has been one of the most dynamic that I have been the OP on. I never expected to see SO many varying opinions on a topic I felt needed some further explanation. To reiterate, I am not a parent(yet) so the whole reality has not even come close to hitting home. However I was a child once and was raised a certain way as were all of you.

Its quite remarkable how impassioned some of posts have been, ranging from borderline offensive, defensive or objective. Obviously there is no crystal ball to determine the success of a child once the wheels are in motion, but the best that any parent can do is provide a framework from which they can have the proper resources and have a clear path to achieve the highest level success they can in their lives.

Socio-economic divide was never more apparent than in some of the posts I read. A few were short on philosophy, some matter of fact, while others were very personal and illustrated that in some cases, "best" as measured by greatschools websites or other metrics, did not dictate their childs success and ultimately infringed on the very values they placed on their over all lifestyle.

Thanks, its been fun

Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 07-19-2011 at 05:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-20-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,075,513 times
Reputation: 13302
Exactly.

And I bet no amount of persuasion would have you believe that Florida had schools as bad as you found them to be.

There was a young woman on the Florida forum that lived in New York City. Not the best area, mind you, but the schools were still very good. She wanted to move to Florida and I was showing her the stats but she just wouldn't hear it. I think she lasted five months before she yanked her kids out of the schools and moved back to NYC.

I didn't want to move to Florida but I am sure if someone told me the schools were bad I would have believed them but not truly understood "how" bad.

Even on this thread I don't think anyone really "got" what I was saying except for the teacher that actually experienced it.

The original question is why do some parents obsess over this and the answer is because there are truly some horrible schools out there. Yes, you can homeschool but not everyone has the luxury of doing that.

And to illustrate my point, I mentioned that my adult children went to MA and CT schools. Well, I remarried when I was in southwest Florida and had a child. After five weeks of her being in kindergarten we moved away. My husband had lived in that area for 25 years but there was no way I was going to have a child go through that system. We practically left with the clothes on our backs. A bit of a over-dramatization but fairly close.

When discussing slight fluctuations in school quality the answer is we strive to give our children the best, to move the family up, so that generationally we improve. At least that is what we should be doing.

I think once you have children you will understand, OP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Exactly. This is part of my point about "best" status. I am originally from CT. and went to a public school that was considered of poor quality by most ratings systems. And, yet, when I taught at a public high school in FL.--one of the "best" according to Newsweek, which ranks nationally--I was appalled; the education (and the educators) in CT. were so much better than what people call the "best" in FL. And a lot of it has to do with the value systems that are being taught: in FL., it's all about appearance and empty numbers that back up that appearance while in CT. (and the NE in general) it was about content and real intellectual ability. And just as teachers in GA have been called out for changing test grades, there was rampant cheating, not to mention lying, at the "best" FL school at which I taught; the lack of integrity and the disregard for honestly and integrity was just shocking. "Best" my eye.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2011, 01:08 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,315,193 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
Exactly.

And I bet no amount of persuasion would have you believe that Florida had schools as bad as you found them to be.

There was a young woman on the Florida forum that lived in New York City. Not the best area, mind you, but the schools were still very good. She wanted to move to Florida and I was showing her the stats but she just wouldn't hear it. I think she lasted five months before she yanked her kids out of the schools and moved back to NYC.

I didn't want to move to Florida but I am sure if someone told me the schools were bad I would have believed them but not truly understood "how" bad.

Even on this thread I don't think anyone really "got" what I was saying except for the teacher that actually experienced it.

The original question is why do some parents obsess over this and the answer is because there are truly some horrible schools out there. Yes, you can homeschool but not everyone has the luxury of doing that.

And to illustrate my point, I mentioned that my adult children went to MA and CT schools. Well, I remarried when I was in southwest Florida and had a child. After five weeks of her being in kindergarten we moved away. My husband had lived in that area for 25 years but there was no way I was going to have a child go through that system. We practically left with the clothes on our backs. A bit of a over-dramatization but fairly close.

When discussing slight fluctuations in school quality the answer is we strive to give our children the best, to move the family up, so that generationally we improve. At least that is what we should be doing.

I think once you have children you will understand, OP.
Owe you rep.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Land of Free Johnson-Weld-2016
6,474 posts, read 13,410,318 times
Reputation: 6404
In my area, "bad school district" is pretty much a synonym for a majority black school district. I'm black so I apologize if I offend anyone. The majority of my black friends (especially the immigrants) did great in school...and we all did extremely including on SAT and other standardized tests.

I have my own opinions about why some black students do badly in schools in the US, but I'll keep them to myself. I have a Korean girlfriend who said to me that when you see blacks in a neighborhood, you know it's a bad area. This may sound offensive, but a few of foreigners (including immigrant blacks) are pretty candid, and a lot of them agree. She didn't mean to be offensive, nor was I offended.

Whether or not it is true, I suspect a lot of whites may agree.

Since whites are the majority wealth-holders and job-holders in the country, as well as earning higher salaries on average than blacks...it is kind of common sense to buy in a neighborhood where there are white people if you want the house to retain value. It sounds even more horrible, right? Sorry.

I think a lot of people want to buy in a "good" school district for resale value. The irony is that I know people who live in areas with good public schools, but send their children to private school, anyway!

We do have an area in our state that has the BEST schools (Overalll. The bestest math/science/engineering high school is still in our majority-black and crime-ridden city): Howard County, MD.

It is a very diverse area, not just in terms of black/white (less recent immigrant) Americans, but it also has a lot of more recent immigrants from Asia, India (yeah I know, it's technically Asia) and Africa. The median income is one of the highest in the country.

As a result, the housing prices are extremely high. A lot of people bought houses there because of the good schools...and honestly, housing costs so much they couldn't afford to send their kids to private schools, anyway. In that area, the good schools have been a selling point for parents who actually want their kids to go to a good public school.

But I think the parents also know that if they live in the area, there will probably be other people like themselves: technically trained, affluent and highly educated. In short, people they want to live around...and their kids won't grow up with any "bad" habits. So the "good schools" may also be a euphemism for that sort of thing.

So, racial stuff aside...I agree it's all socioeconomic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,075,513 times
Reputation: 13302
There is a difference between "best" schools in a particular school district and "best" school districts. A huge difference.

In Knoxville, we get a lot of questions about which schools are the "best." I always say that the curriculum is the same and what kind of teachers are in what kind of schools is debatable. Some "good" teachers prefer to be in the "good" schools and other teachers prefer the challenge of the "bad" schools.

In any event, the school ratings do reflect the socio-economic background of the students. Yes, that can mean a large amount of black students but it is also often reflective of white students from the "wrong" side of the tracks.

Once again, though, the schools are still in the same school district and the students tend to be getting the same quality of education.

On the other hand there are school districts that are underfunded, where the people of the town do not put a big emphasis on education, and/or where retirees are the majority and their children and grandchildren live elsewhere. There are a lot of reasons for having bad school systems but I am here to say that the quality of schools throughout the country fluctuates to an enormous degree.

Clearly, a lot of people don't realize this.

Last edited by hiknapster; 07-20-2011 at 04:04 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2011, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,965 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31376
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
On the other hand there are school districts that are underfunded, where the people of the town do not put a big emphasis on education, and/or where retirees are the majority and their children and grandchildren live elsewhere. There are a lot of reasons for having bad school systems but I am here to say that the quality of schools throughout the country fluctuates to an enormous degree.

Clearly, a lot of people don't realize this.
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this point. I think a lot of people on this thread "get" what you have said, however, that is not the point of the thread, at least as I can tell.

The OP questioned people's obsession with moving into the "best" school district in a particular city/metro area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-20-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 80,765,097 times
Reputation: 17411
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post
A trend I have noticed here on city-data is this obsession regarding "best school district".
It's not a trend - it's always been this way (since CD started almost six years ago).

What do you expect from a relocation forum? People are relocating. What's the first thing they want? "Good" schools.

What does "good schools" mean?

In general it means peers at the same or higher socioeconomic level as the poster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,003 posts, read 31,957,905 times
Reputation: 30387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
It's not a trend - it's always been this way (since CD started almost six years ago).

What do you expect from a relocation forum? People are relocating. What's the first thing they want? "Good" schools.

What does "good schools" mean?

In general it means peers at the same or higher socioeconomic level as the poster
In one certain forum it means as few black or hispanic kids as possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,075,513 times
Reputation: 13302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I'm not sure why you keep pushing this point. I think a lot of people on this thread "get" what you have said, however, that is not the point of the thread, at least as I can tell.

The OP questioned people's obsession with moving into the "best" school district in a particular city/metro area.
Excuse me?

School district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps that is what the OP meant but he wrote "school district" and that means the local system, not a particular area or school.

I'm on the state forums a lot and people do not "get" that some districts are completely different than others and by an enormous margin. There are people that put their kids in Florida schools after moving from up north and the kids are two grades ahead.

In any event, if the OP meant schools within a district he should have said so.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 07-21-2011 at 07:52 PM.. Reason: removed personal remark
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-21-2011, 10:17 AM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,839,007 times
Reputation: 15019
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
Excuse me?


I'm on the state forums a lot and people do not "get" that some districts are completely different than others and by an enormous margin. There are people that put their kids in Florida schools after moving from up north and the kids are two grades ahead.
Interestingly, while that seems to be true today, I have a black friend who moved from Mississippi to Chicago when she was a child (long time ago now, 1955). She was two years ahead of the Chicago Public School students at the time and she had come from an all black Mississippi school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top