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Old 07-30-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Flock Of Budgies View Post
Also, it is not the sort of community I live and work in. Most parents just don't give a damn at the high school level. I've witnessed it first hand.
Of course it does, the amount of time parents spend attending to their kids education is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, ethnicity, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Flock Of Budgies View Post
Note: You saying that kids are going to be placed with a professional babysitter says all I have to know about what you think about teachers.
Good, that was the intention.
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: USA
67 posts, read 92,309 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Of course it does, the amount of time parents spend attending to their kids education is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, ethnicity, etc.
I've worked in inner city high schools and high schools in the suburbs. Trust me... There is no difference when it comes to parental involvement at the high school level.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Flock Of Budgies View Post
I've worked in inner city high schools and high schools in the suburbs. Trust me... There is no difference when it comes to parental involvement at the high school level.
Can you remind me why I'm suppose to trust you? What does urban vs suburb schools have anything to do with what I'm saying? Sure, at least in some areas, urban schools tend to be filled with low-income students, but there are plenty of suburban schools with the same demographics.

There are profound differences in parental involvement depending on the parents socioeconomic status and ethnicity, the fact that you haven't noticed this just means you've not worked in a diverse set of schools. Of course, you are free to think you can lump all parents into the same group by the mere fact that they have had children....that sure makes sense.....
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: USA
67 posts, read 92,309 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
There are profound differences in parental involvement depending on the parents socioeconomic status and ethnicity, the fact that you haven't noticed this just means you've not worked in a diverse set of schools. Of course, you are free to think you can lump all parents into the same group by the mere fact that they have had children....that sure makes sense.....
I've worked in schools with a large portion of the students being Hispanic. Also, I've worked in schools with a large portion of the students being Caucasian. Again, I say there is NO difference in parental involvement at the high school level.

BTW, I don't care if you trust me.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,966,907 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Flock Of Budgies View Post
I've worked in schools with a large portion of the students being Hispanic. Also, I've worked in schools with a large portion of the students being Caucasian. Again, I say there is NO difference in parental involvement at the high school level.
So, you've dealt with two ethnic groups and you believe you can now reasonably assert that ethnicity and socioeconomic status have nothing to do with parental involvement?

You can say whatever you like, but your claims are inaccurate, its simply a fact that parental involvement differs among ethnic and socioeconomic groups. This doesn't mean that every ethnic group and/or socioeconomic group is going to differ, just that rates of parental involvement are correlated with ethnicity and socioeconomic status.
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:43 AM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,828,849 times
Reputation: 15019
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
What reason is there to believe this? Better schools have better teachers so why would one expect the quality of education to be the same? And this says nothing of the effect that peers have on the overall educational experience.

Only sometimes. Many working class schools do have good teachers because those teachers want to make a difference in the lives of working class children.

Regardless, the interest in great schools is primarily an upper-middle class thing, these people usually don't have enough to put their kids into a prestigious private school so they have to look for the best public schools for their kids. But beyond educational quality, a lot of it has to do with not wanting their kids to be influence by Plebes.

I don't know, the answer here seems pretty obvious..
Actually, I don't think the *upper* middle class are the ones who have an interest in the great schools website.

Looking for the best public schools for their kids is mostly a middle class thing, but you would be surprised at how many poor people also want the best public schools. The poor are limited by the fact that they cannot move to expensive neighborhoods, but.... in the suburban school I taught in, parents who had relatives in our suburb, often said that their kids lived with those relatives to get them into our suburban high school. It was a big problem because of the taxes when kids did not really live in our town, but most were never caught.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:03 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,548 posts, read 8,734,436 times
Reputation: 20848
Count me in as someone who was very selective about school district. It boiled down to the types of academic & extra-curricular opportunities available to my kids as they progressed through their educations. Were they better off for it? I have no way to compare, but I'm not unhappy with what our family experienced. The first two were well-prepared for the demands of college, and I'm sure the youngest will be, too.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:51 AM
 
922 posts, read 562,648 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Actually, I don't think the *upper* middle class are the ones who have an interest in the great schools website.

Looking for the best public schools for their kids is mostly a middle class thing, but you would be surprised at how many poor people also want the best public schools. The poor are limited by the fact that they cannot move to expensive neighborhoods, but.... in the suburban school I taught in, parents who had relatives in our suburb, often said that their kids lived with those relatives to get them into our suburban high school. It was a big problem because of the taxes when kids did not really live in our town, but most were never caught.
I agree; this whole discussion is a “middle class thing”.

The rich don’t care and the poor have no choice in the matter.

IME in my state/neighborhood its all about avoiding the latter. They will never come out and say it-but it is what it is. If a very highly rated school changed its zoning to include more poor kids; it wouldn’t matter how “Best” the school was two minutes before; there will be an exodus of the middle+ classes the likes not seen since the Israelites left Egypt. The previously “Best” label will matter not. And they will point to all mannner of statistics to justify that flight. The teachers, facilities, and curriculum previously trusted will no longer be enough to justify attendance.

So, I agree with those that have previously stated that when comparing the ‘Best’ school to the second best or middle of the road schools; it’s more about picking a school you feel will most likely be attended by people like you. No matter what ‘like you’ ends up meaning.

And that’s only if it matters or whether you have a choice to begin with.
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:17 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,659 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68406
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Of course it does, the amount of time parents spend attending to their kids education is highly correlated with socioeconomic status, ethnicity, etc.
Not in my observation. It varies a lot. Some parents from a lower socioeconomic status are VERY involved in motivating their kids to do well, because they know that education is the only way the kids are going to be able to better themselves, and get out of the low status they were born into.

Parents in the higher levels of society sometimes are uninvolved with their kids, being too busy with their own social scene, or more involved with their personal problems, or simply take for granted that their kids will do well. If they send their kids to private schools, they may assume that their job is done, and that they've set their kid on the right track--the school will do the rest. I've seen a LOT of examples that defy these tidy conclusions that "studies" and "surveys" come up with.


This is a 7-year-old thread; the OP probably is no longer around. He said he was a mediocre student, and didn't care about scholastics much. I wonder what kind of college he got into? I wonder how that affected his career options and trajectory? He seems to be content, so maybe that doesn't matter? But usually the "good school district" concern is about the quality of preparation for college, so the kids have a better chance of being launched successfully in life. I don't know why that would be a mystery to the OP.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,717 posts, read 59,563,864 times
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Not sure whether I commented on this thread earlier or not, but now, with all of our kids through school, so far the ones who have done the best were the ones who went to the "worst" schools growing up. Last one went to a "best" school all the way through. He is on a near full ride scholarship, but it is for music. He had great academics, tons of 4/5 on AP tests. What really matters for him however is how well he plays the trumpet. Not sure all that "great" schooling meant a lot for that. It did mean he gets to skip most of the gen eds, start a basically a sophomore, and may get to graduate in four years instead of the normal 5 for a music major.


We have had kids in lots of different types of schools (5 kids). We learned there is not a lot of difference in the schools. It is more about the students who attend the schools with your kids. The more hyper competitive the kids are, the better the school will perform on statistics. hyper-competitive is not always the best atmosphere for all kids. Some of our kids performed extremely well in a hyper-competitive atmosphere and some choked, but did extremely well in less competitive (less highly rated) schools.

Yes the AP classes can help kids get through college faster or more easily, but that does not make a lot of difference in how good their life is or what they ultimately accomplish.

Step one is to figure out what you want for your kid: high salary? more free time? happy? great parent/family person? sophisticated? well traveled? open minded? powerful? spiritually balanced/in sync with God? enjoys their work? Artistically accomplished/creative?

Once you figure out what you want for them, then you need to figure out whether that is what they actually any and whether a given school promotes that. Let's say your daughter is an amazing singer and that is what she truly loves. The best choral music teacher might be at a school with lesser academic achievement. Choosing the best academic statistics school would be doing that daughter a disservice. What if you choose the school with the best choral music program when your daughter is in fifth grade and the director retires, or moves to to a different district within three years? What if you move to the town where the schools have top academic statistics but then the principal or superintendent leaves/dies/retires and the schools slide before your kid even gets to Jr. high? What if your kid turns out to be non-academic and would be better off in a place with a great trades program? What if they turn out to be unable to sit at a desk for hours upon hours an need movement? (We have one like that). The highly academic environment will make them miserable no matter how smart they are.

No statistics are going to tell you which school is best for any given kid. You may well be doing them a disservice and imposing a life of misery on them by simply selecting the "best" school statistically and assuming your are giving your child the best possible opportunity. Frankly, I think making such a selection is lazy parenting (not judging, we were guilty of it too, but we learned better over time).

Then of course there is the fact that school rankings and quality change constantly. Choosing the "best" school district when your kid is three, is often kind of silly. No matter how much you think and desire for things to stay the same, they change. You will likely move elsewhere before you kid is old enough for schools statistics to matter, or the school may change, or your kid may grow to be different than you expect.

Finally, you can always work around the schools. While it is convenient to attend the local public school, that is not the only option. In most places you have school of choice, charter schools, magnet schools, private schools, specialty schools. . . There are always options, you just might have to work at it a little bit.
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