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Old 09-06-2018, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,582 posts, read 63,014,599 times
Reputation: 30699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW View Post
It is lazy parenting? You know many parents work and cannot provide transportation to 5 different schools in 5 different locations every morning and afternoon?

And you do know that most charter schools have a lottery system to get in? So, if I put my kids' name in the lottery every year, I am still not guaranteed that my child will ever be the one selected, especially if they have 100+ applicants for every ONE opening.

And magnet schools have specific criteria. We only have two in our district and they are for high school students only, no K-8 magnets are available.

Private is often out of reach financially and typically has the same issues with transportation.

So, while there are options, they may not always be options for a given family.

Thankfully, we have a fantastic school that has met the needs of two of our 3 children very well.

But my husband and I don't have schedules that allow us to drop off and pick up at the given times the schools need us to. We are working to provide a college education for them and a place to live......we are in no way, shape, or form lazy parents.
One home school lesson I always tried to teach my kids: "There is no can't. Sometimes you just need a little help or a new approach, but there is always a way to do anything sensible."

I had a job that often required as much as 100 hours a week from time to time. My wife had a 40 minute commute to a job where she worked 9 hours (eight plus breaks). Yes, it can be hard. Sometimes very hard. When we both had to work, we relied on other parents, neighbors, public buses, and other methods (we had no other family within 1000 miles, having family nearby makes a world of difference). We helped set up a group of students to ride their bicycles together to a school that was four miles away (this was middle school in earlier years we had to find other options). Sometimes we had to drop our kids off at McDonald's across from the school an hour or two early. For a time we left them early int he morning at another parent's house who lived next door to the school and picked them up there after work. Sometimes we had to go to the principal for help in figuring everything out, or even the school board. Heck, one time we got our US representative to congress involved (the local schools we were assigned to did not have anyone who spoke English well enough to communicate at the school). She pulled some strings and got our kids moved to a school where the teachers and principal spoke English. In fact, it was a great school overall, but we had to get the kids there. Luckily my wife's best friend lived a block away from the school. There were times when my kids had to come to work with me and hang out in a conference room and color for a while. Fortunately my bosses were great people and liked when the kids came in. Sometimes they would sit and chat with them, let them play in their offices for a while, or bring them coloring books etc. That actually worked out well because my bosses (later partners) came to know our kids well and came to their birthday parties, got them Christmas gifts, donated clean blood for a surgery. Not everyone has a situation like that, but there is always some opportunity. Someone who is willing to help out.

When things got better for us and my wife was later able to become a professional mom, then we pitched in and helped get other kids to school or let them come to our house in the afternoons. It may be true that it is not practical to do it alone, sometimes you just need a little help. This kind of effort was not what I was referring to though. It is not lazy to refuse to make an extraordinary effort overcome those types of obstacles. That takes extraordinary effort, but it can be done.

However my point was not about school options for working parents, but about how you choose a school. Choosing a school based only on some list or poll that says this is the best school, is lazy parenting IMO. There is a lot more to it than that. There is also a lot more to choosing the best place for your family to live than simply finding a house in the "best" school district. The atmosphere or "learning environment" of the school is as, or more important than the test scores or online rankings. To actually think about it, investigate, analyze, investigate some more so you find the best place/school for your particular family takes some work. Refusing to make that effort is lazy parenting IMO. It is amazing how many parents we met who had never been to the school or knew nothing about it prior to enrolling their kids other than that it got "best" school rankings, or "good" school rankings. Many parents did not even know that much.

Yes, you may have to take some vacation days or sick time to do such investigations. It may take a long time to figure it out because you are likely to strike out a few times before finding the right place. One thing we learned the hard way is you also need to investigate, to the extent possible, upcoming changes. Is the principal moving out of state next year? Are the best teachers leaving? Sometimes you knock yourself out to find the right place and then it changes. Then you have to find another option - and once you have purchased a house and settled in, finding alternate options can be pretty hard.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:18 AM
 
991 posts, read 658,539 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
However, I would think particularly when relocating, they would research the schools in the new area to know where to buy, unless they were planning on going private .
They donít. If they research anything itís to figure out where others like them live.

Because any place they live will be exclusive/ high end/ desirable and the schools/ amenities will follow suit. If for some reason they donít, private schools are typically nearby and aplenty. Those that are truly wealthy have little to no anxiety about their childrenís future career or college options. Those are typically already mapped out/taken care of. If the education options arenít working locally then boarding schools, private tutors, specialized schools etc are a check away.

Thatís not to say they donít want good educations for their offspring; itís just a foregone conclusion. Thereís no need for them to hand wring and pore over US News ĎBest ofí rankings.

This really is a middle class issue.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:36 AM
 
4,097 posts, read 10,177,401 times
Reputation: 1901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
One home school lesson I always tried to teach my kids: "There is no can't. Sometimes you just need a little help or a new approach, but there is always a way to do anything sensible."

I had a job that often required as much as 100 hours a week from time to time. My wife had a 40 minute commute to a job where she worked 9 hours (eight plus breaks). Yes, it can be hard. Sometimes very hard. When we both had to work, we relied on other parents, neighbors, public buses, and other methods (we had no other family within 1000 miles, having family nearby makes a world of difference). We helped set up a group of students to ride their bicycles together to a school that was four miles away (this was middle school in earlier years we had to find other options). Sometimes we had to drop our kids off at McDonald's across from the school an hour or two early. For a time we left them early int he morning at another parent's house who lived next door to the school and picked them up there after work. Sometimes we had to go to the principal for help in figuring everything out, or even the school board. Heck, one time we got our US representative to congress involved (the local schools we were assigned to did not have anyone who spoke English well enough to communicate at the school). She pulled some strings and got our kids moved to a school where the teachers and principal spoke English. In fact, it was a great school overall, but we had to get the kids there. Luckily my wife's best friend lived a block away from the school. There were times when my kids had to come to work with me and hang out in a conference room and color for a while. Fortunately my bosses were great people and liked when the kids came in. Sometimes they would sit and chat with them, let them play in their offices for a while, or bring them coloring books etc. That actually worked out well because my bosses (later partners) came to know our kids well and came to their birthday parties, got them Christmas gifts, donated clean blood for a surgery. Not everyone has a situation like that, but there is always some opportunity. Someone who is willing to help out.

When things got better for us and my wife was later able to become a professional mom, then we pitched in and helped get other kids to school or let them come to our house in the afternoons. It may be true that it is not practical to do it alone, sometimes you just need a little help. This kind of effort was not what I was referring to though. It is not lazy to refuse to make an extraordinary effort overcome those types of obstacles. That takes extraordinary effort, but it can be done.

However my point was not about school options for working parents, but about how you choose a school. Choosing a school based only on some list or poll that says this is the best school, is lazy parenting IMO. There is a lot more to it than that. There is also a lot more to choosing the best place for your family to live than simply finding a house in the "best" school district. The atmosphere or "learning environment" of the school is as, or more important than the test scores or online rankings. To actually think about it, investigate, analyze, investigate some more so you find the best place/school for your particular family takes some work. Refusing to make that effort is lazy parenting IMO. It is amazing how many parents we met who had never been to the school or knew nothing about it prior to enrolling their kids other than that it got "best" school rankings, or "good" school rankings. Many parents did not even know that much.

Yes, you may have to take some vacation days or sick time to do such investigations. It may take a long time to figure it out because you are likely to strike out a few times before finding the right place. One thing we learned the hard way is you also need to investigate, to the extent possible, upcoming changes. Is the principal moving out of state next year? Are the best teachers leaving? Sometimes you knock yourself out to find the right place and then it changes. Then you have to find another option - and once you have purchased a house and settled in, finding alternate options can be pretty hard.
Way too much to address here, but I will just focus on the atmosphere and learning environment. It is hard to know that until you have been in the school for a while, and what may be great on the surface, may not work for your kid and you may get MONTHS into it before realizing that. Our local public schools (we have 3 in our district, all close to one another, that rank similarly) are generally the same in terms of learning style and environment, they have similarly demographics and opportunities.

Unless we go private or charter, we aren't going to get that much different in our area. Charter and private require parents to take them, there is no transportation. We cannot provide it in our household right now. And none of our local neighbors have chosen that route, so there are no opportunities to get a ride or drop off at someone else's house. If a child comes to work with me or my husband, they aren't getting to school, we do not work where we can go for a while, hang out, then leave to take our kids when they need to go.

I think that research CAN include rankings. Schools are ranked for a reason. It is not completely arbitrary.

And how in the WORLD would you know if teachers are leaving? Teachers and admin get moved around all the time, by the district, by circumstances, etc.....This is true of private and public schools.

And please understand that just because you did something, doesn't mean it will work for others. I live in a somewhat rural area outside of the city. There are NO public buses, no McDonald's and no sidewalks. The road my kids would have to bike on isn't even one I would bike on. It is a narrow two lane road with a 50mph speed limit! We rely on the public school bus, and when they are old enough, they drive themselves to school.
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:06 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
They donít. If they research anything itís to figure out where others like them live.

Because any place they live will be exclusive/ high end/ desirable and the schools/ amenities will follow suit. If for some reason they donít, private schools are typically nearby and aplenty. Those that are truly wealthy have little to no anxiety about their childrenís future career or college options. Those are typically already mapped out/taken care of. If the education options arenít working locally then boarding schools, private tutors, specialized schools etc are a check away.

Thatís not to say they donít want good educations for their offspring; itís just a foregone conclusion. Thereís no need for them to hand wring and pore over US News ĎBest ofí rankings.

This really is a middle class issue.
(Re: Upper middle class parents)
I'm curious how you know this. I probably fit in the upper middle class category (though not "truly wealthy"), and if I had to relocate with school age kids, I certainly wouldn't ignore the school issue altogether. I live in a district which is generally speaking upper-middle class (to varying degrees around the district) and of course the admin says there are no bad schools here. It's probably true. However, at least at the high school level, each school has its own "vibe". Some are very sports-minded, some are less sporty but more nerdy; some have great music programs with award winning groups, including one of the lower income (for here) schools), some have superlative music programs, and so forth.

I do not know anyone who ever sent their HS kid to boarding school. I worked with a group of doctors (not the "truly wealthy either, mind you) and most of them used some private schools, mostly religious.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:16 PM
 
21 posts, read 7,274 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
"The best school district" in many cases is code for a homogenous economic community where income levels are higher than average. Economics and achievement have the strongest correlation of any other factors. Families struggling with economic issues are often single parent families with more personal challenges and fewer resources and supports. It has been my experience as a retired teacher that many districts that are less than "the best" have teachers and programs that exceed those in some of "the best" school districts. It is much easier to teach students whose parents expect them to do well and place a high value on education than it is to teach students who often have considerable challenges they are dealing with outside of the classroom. As others have mentioned, despite these challenges, many students persevere, overcome many challenges, and become successful resilient adults.
Amen. Having taught in a very high performing public school and a very under performing, Title I, public school, I have generally found that to be the case. Still, I found teaching in the Title I school much more rewarding and have created meaningful relationships with my students guardians which has helped them to be more successful in school and at home. I think too often, teachers and others have this idea that parents of struggling students don't care when in reality, they do, they just don't know how to ask or seek help. I have seen some incredible progress made in these schools when guardians do become involved in their students learning. This will help bridge the gap between under performing and high performing schools.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:31 AM
 
991 posts, read 658,539 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
(Re: Upper middle class parents)
I'm curious how you know this. I probably fit in the upper middle class category (though not "truly wealthy"), and if I had to relocate with school age kids, I certainly wouldn't ignore the school issue altogether. I live in a district which is generally speaking upper-middle class (to varying degrees around the district) and of course the admin says there are no bad schools here. It's probably true. However, at least at the high school level, each school has its own "vibe". Some are very sports-minded, some are less sporty but more nerdy; some have great music programs with award winning groups, including one of the lower income (for here) schools), some have superlative music programs, and so forth.

I do not know anyone who ever sent their HS kid to boarding school. I worked with a group of doctors (not the "truly wealthy either, mind you) and most of them used some private schools, mostly religious.
How I know is irrelevant to the topic.

But I do know several people that sent their kids to boarding school seeing as i attended those myself.

But.... back to the topic at hand.....
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:34 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
How I know is irrelevant to the topic.

But I do know several people that sent their kids to boarding school seeing as i attended those myself.

But.... back to the topic at hand.....
Do you have a reference that it is true that upper-middle class to "truly wealthy" don't care about school rankings/ratings? I'm sure you don't expect me to agree with this on bare assertion.
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:57 AM
 
991 posts, read 658,539 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Do you have a reference that it is true that upper-middle class to "truly wealthy" don't care about school rankings/ratings? I'm sure you don't expect me to agree with this on bare assertion.
I donít Ďexpectí you to do anything. You can take it or leave it for all its worth.

I tend not to assume that if things donít match my experience/belief then they canít possibly be. I also understand that others arenít so lucky. So.... yeah.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:08 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
I donít Ďexpectí you to do anything. You can take it or leave it for all its worth.

I tend not to assume that if things donít match my experience/belief then they canít possibly be. I also understand that others arenít so lucky. So.... yeah.
So no documentation. OK.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:36 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 941,952 times
Reputation: 1738
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Flock Of Budgies View Post
Come on what?

I am a high school teacher. Out of four classes only THREE sets of parents came to visit me during parent-teacher conferences to talk about their kids' education. Parents are NOT involved at the high school level. Hence, they don't give a damn.

You just made my point - parents are both working hard to support their narcissistic lifestyles.
Maybe they're heeding the advice of teachers on forums. Teachers seem to dislike parent involvement. Maybe they're hoping to avoid it with a good school so they don't feel the need to irritate others.

Forget Helicopter Parents - Say Hello to the Lawnmower Parent

"Hey, I've got an idea for a hot new toy: Primadona Barbie, and Snowflake Barbie. There could also be Son-of-Privilege Ken. His accessory car would be a Jaguar."
Primadonna isn't even spelled correctly. lol
"Don't forget Barbie's mom, Varna (short for Husqvarna) Del Toro and her prop, a Lawnmower"
I do believe they're missing "narcissistic Barbie"-you could add in!!

Parents, you don't want a Barbie named after you. lmao!

Which is it? You want parents involved or don't you? Parents seem pretty damned either way it seems.

My advice, look for the best school you can and just hope for the best.

Last edited by Tokinouta; 09-07-2018 at 02:00 PM..
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