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View Poll Results: What percent of teachers are crappy teachers?
More than 45% 14 24.56%
41%-45% 2 3.51%
36%-40% 0 0%
31%-35% 5 8.77%
26%-30% 2 3.51%
21%-25% 2 3.51%
16%-20% 7 12.28%
11%-15% 4 7.02%
6%-10% 9 15.79%
5% or less 12 21.05%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2011, 08:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeShoreSoxGo View Post
Some of my teachers should have been lined up and shot.
Gee, whatever happened to a warning, mentoring or at worst a pink slip?!
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poletop1 View Post
Gee, whatever happened to a warning, mentoring or at worst a pink slip?!
Apparently, teachers aren't really human, they're just worthless trash, so killing them is ok.

This thread makes me glad I'll be out of teaching in two years. I was kind of sad about it but now I'm rethinking that.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:01 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,906,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Apparently, teachers aren't really human, they're just worthless trash, so killing them is ok.
The first step in rationalizing the killing of the members of a group is to dehumanize them. That's what's been going on for a decade now, and which has recently escalated to such alarming levels that a national march on Washington was just held.

I sense a sea change is about to happen. As I've said before, the parents need to stand up and say that they will not accept the current practices that are trying to masquerade as teaching. They don't even call it teaching anymore. At our school they call it "delivery of instruction". Parents need to quit supporting the policy makers and start supporting the teachers. The teachers remember how to teach--they just haven't been allowed to do it for a long time.

The teacher who inspired me to teach was the one who taught me about how the Nazis justified the genocide of the Jews, gypsies, mentally and physically handicapped and the homosexuals. He retired rather than teach according to any canned curriculum. The course was US Government, but the subject was the nature of man. He taught philosophy and political science. I learned about dialectical materialism in a way that he refused to outline as a lesson to take place on a certain day with specified activities detailed and materials and assessments attached. In truth, he didn't just teach his subject--he taught his students.

That is the difference between a good teacher and a crappy teacher.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,159,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I have to wonder why people like this even become teachers and even moreso why administrators don't do what it takes to get rid of them.
Yeah, me too.
In the case of the kindergarten teacher, supposedly the district was afraid she'd claim they were firing her because of her disability-- but I'm thinking all they'd have to do is ask a half dozen parents to testify against her. I happily would have, and it wasn't even my kid who got the water poured on him (that was actually shortly after I went to the principal and said "you have 24 hours to get my son out of this class").

Now, in defense of teachers, I think both of these are uncommon. But the fact that both are still teaching lo these many years later...well...that shows a certain lack on the administration's part.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,159,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
But you wouldn't see over 20% of respondants claiming to be outliers!

Yes, there will be outliers but over 20% of respondants picked 41% or more.

You're probably right. I didn't look to see how many had responded, total. OTOH, people who have not had out-of-the-norm educational experiences are unlikely to be interested enough in education threads to post in one. Unless they're teachers, which one would assume they are not. So it's possible, though probably not likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
20% is more than outliers. Statistically speaking, a teacher at the 40th percentile should be on the low side of average which means we're leaning into average teachers are crappy. Which is rather interesting considering that, by far, the majority of teachers are given satisfactory ratings by their administrators.

If 40% of teachers are crappy, that means that 2 out of 5 teachers are crappy and, on average, students can expect to have 16-20 crappy teachers by the time they finish high school (range due to some schools having a 6 period day and some having a 7 period day). I don't know about the rest of you but I find that rather hard to swallow. If 2 out of 5 teachers is inadequate to do the job, I think we'd see that in educational outcomes. I had two crappy teachers and there is no way I could have overcome the damage done if I had had ten times that many crappy teachers.

Personally, I discount those claiming 41% and above. I think they are just pissed off for some reason. The votes that distrub me are the ones around 1/3 because that's about as high as would be believable and that means a crappy teacher 2 out of 6 years in elementary school and 2 crappy teachers per year from middle school through high school graduation. THAT is scary.

Using a weighted average, I come up with 20% crappy teachers from the poll (assuming 50% for those who picked >45%). That's, roughly, 1-2 during elementary school and 6 to 9 from middle school through high school. That's still pretty high. Given I wen to a poor, reneck, school district, and managed to have only two inadequate teachers, I have to wonder what the definition of crappy is. To me a crappy teacher is a teacher who doesn't get the job done, for whatever reason. If they manage to get the job done, even if things don't go smoothly, I'd consider them some degree of adequate.
I think the biggest problem is trying to apply statistics to opinion. A teacher I might rate as adequate (because I live in an area which somehow seems to collect trainwrecks) might be considered crappy in Iowa, Massachusetts, or one of those "we actually value education" states. And I'd be willing to bet teachers, especially in these days of high emotion about the subject overall, are more willing to cut their colleagues slack than are parents.
IOW, you're thinking like an engineer (what a surprise, eh?), and ignoring the human element, which can be counted upon to mess everything up.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,159,738 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poletop1 View Post
Gee, whatever happened to a warning, mentoring or at worst a pink slip?!
I'm guessing someone is waxing hyperbolic. Though when you get into the notorious hardcore cases like Debra LaFave and Mary Kay Letourneau, I imagine there are folks who might consider it literally a good idea.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
You're probably right. I didn't look to see how many had responded, total. OTOH, people who have not had out-of-the-norm educational experiences are unlikely to be interested enough in education threads to post in one. Unless they're teachers, which one would assume they are not. So it's possible, though probably not likely.



I think the biggest problem is trying to apply statistics to opinion. A teacher I might rate as adequate (because I live in an area which somehow seems to collect trainwrecks) might be considered crappy in Iowa, Massachusetts, or one of those "we actually value education" states. And I'd be willing to bet teachers, especially in these days of high emotion about the subject overall, are more willing to cut their colleagues slack than are parents.
IOW, you're thinking like an engineer (what a surprise, eh?), and ignoring the human element, which can be counted upon to *******s everything up.
Statistically speaking, opinion should follow a normal curve too..(That's why they do political polls (100% opinion there))...Anything having to do with people tends to fall into a normal distribution of some kind. I'm just kind of shocked to see a bathtub curve. I do realize that people are more likely to complain than compliment. THAT is human nature. If memory serves me correctly, when we're upset about something, we tell 7 people but when we like something, we tell only 3.

Still, it's disheartening to realize that close to 1/3 of people think a high percentage of teachers are crappy. Public opinion like this can become a self fulfilling prophecy if competent teachers are not willing to accept being associated with a career where popular opinoin says that most people are incompetent. These people, with their opinions are my student's parents. Do I, as a teacher, want to deal with one in five of my student's parents thinking the teaching profession, as a whole, is simply incompetent? That's what you're saying when you pick above 45% are incompetent. You're saying that the average teacher is incompetent and 1 in 5 people answering this poll is saying that. Now, given that you tell 7 people when you are unhappy and 3 when you're happy, it will appear that they are a bigger segment of the population. This doesn't bode well for the future of teaching.....
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Statistically speaking, opinion should follow a normal curve too..(That's why they do political polls (100% opinion there)).
And we've seen how accurate those have been lo these last few elections...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Still, it's disheartening to realize that close to 1/3 of people think a high percentage of teachers are crappy. Public opinion like this can become a self fulfilling prophecy if competent teachers are not willing to accept being associated with a career where popular opinoin says that most people are incompetent.
But again, you're not using a broad impartial sample. Using a small handful of regular CD posters (who themselves are not necessarily representative of the nation at large) to represent "popular opinion" is not only statistically unsound, it's just goofy.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Yeah, me too.
In the case of the kindergarten teacher, supposedly the district was afraid she'd claim they were firing her because of her disability-- but I'm thinking all they'd have to do is ask a half dozen parents to testify against her. I happily would have, and it wasn't even my kid who got the water poured on him (that was actually shortly after I went to the principal and said "you have 24 hours to get my son out of this class").

Now, in defense of teachers, I think both of these are uncommon. But the fact that both are still teaching lo these many years later...well...that shows a certain lack on the administration's part.
I agree that it is the administrator who is failing here. There is a movement to get rid of tenure but something tells me that even without tenure this teacher would keep her job because they're afraid she'd sue them because of her disability. Eliminating tenure doesn't fix what is really wrong here and that is administrators who fail to act.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
And we've seen how accurate those have been lo these last few elections...




But again, you're not using a broad impartial sample. Using a small handful of regular CD posters (who themselves are not necessarily representative of the nation at large) to represent "popular opinion" is not only statistically unsound, it's just goofy.
I don't think they represent popular opinion. I wouldn't be worried if I thought that. I think they represent a higher segment of the population (higher SES). Just owning a computer puts you in a higher class than most. If 1 in 5 of THIS group thinks most teachers are crappy, I shudder to think what the average person thinks. It is because I realize this is not a representative group that I think this is VERY BAD. If this were a cross section of average Americans, I'd expect any malcontent to pick the worst possible answer just because they want to blame someone else. This crowd should be more enlightened than that because they should represent a higher SES.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-04-2011 at 08:52 AM.. Reason: typo
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