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Old 08-15-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,172,990 times
Reputation: 8204

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
And there is BIG money to be made here for the owners of the school. The charter I worked for packed about 5 more students in each classroom (compared to my local schools) at $8500/head, and paid the teachers $10K less than districts pay new hires AND provided lousy health care AND did not contribute to a pension fund or 401K for the teachers. If you multiply this by 30 classrooms.....CA-CHING....While they did have a mortgage on the building, they will own the building and the land. I figure there was about 2.5 million in extra funds and salaries and benefits not paid. While they had a mortgage, they don't have an administration building to maintain or a school board to pay and the extra students per classroom would more than pay the mortgage on a $20M loan.

This is big business....Sadly, NONE of the savings from teacher salaries, benefits and retirements not paid goes back to the tax payer. It just goes into the owners pocket.

I know, I know, teachers are supposed to be so dedicated to their trade that we don't even THINK about filthy lucre.....

And think about this....All a charter needs to do in order to survive is to be better than the school their students would go to if they didn't go there. If you pick the right locale, that's not hard AND you can start expelling trouble makers after the fall head count day and KEEP 75% of the money attached to that child's head. Oh yeah, there's room for abuse here.

IMO, only non profit charters should be allowed.
America has been betrayed by GREED
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:28 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,913,231 times
Reputation: 3504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Shutting down schools is not an option because there are kids who need those schools. I'm not sure what the answer is WRT kids who are disinterested and downright disruptive in class. If I knew the answer to that I'm sure I could win some kind of award. By the time they get to high school, they're pretty set in their ways. I do agree that it's not worthwhile to continue pushing education the way we do but I'm more inclined to offer these kids some kind of technical training than write them off. I don't think every child is or should be college material but they should all walk away able to function in society.

The reasons kids fail and schools fail are so complex. There is a lot that needs to be changed and, unfortunately, schools don't control much of what needs to change. If a student comes from a poor family background where education is not valued but attends school in a good district, there's a good chance peers will pull that student up but put the same student in an inner city school and there's a good chance peers will pull them down. Unfortunately, it's not possible to make sure every child has good peers and a good home environment but these are two things parents who care can work on.

If you need to move to give your child good peers, then move. If you have a child who isn't doing well where they are, move them. I moved both of my kids out of the local school and into a charter school because dd#1 was floundering. I can't say the school was particularly bad or teachers particularly bad but both were a bad fit for dd. She's still my struggling child. To be honest, I don't know what we would have done had I not gotten this job. It gave me the option of putting her in with a much higher class of peers who are almost all college bound. That has changed her focus.

Prepare your kids, teach them to value education, hold them accountable and watch their peers. Get them involved in group activities like sports. Keep them too busy to find trouble and if all else fails, find a good private school or move to a better district. You can't be afraid to parent.
Bring back the draft and tie deferment to a 3.0 GPA. I'll bet that slackers will turn into scholars in no time.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
2,956 posts, read 4,382,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
Bring back the draft and tie deferment to a 3.0 GPA. I'll bet that slackers will turn into scholars in no time.
Now there's an idea. I could see the senior year of high school being far more academically competitive than most colleges.

One step further for fun. Anyone under a 2.0 is automatically in the infantry.

Obviously this can't happen, but it's amusing to imagine the nationwide reaction.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,172,990 times
Reputation: 8204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
Now there's an idea. I could see the senior year of high school being far more academically competitive than most colleges.

One step further for fun. Anyone under a 2.0 is automatically in the infantry.

Obviously this can't happen, but it's amusing to imagine the nationwide reaction.
As a retired Infantry Mortar Sergeant with a degree I take offense to the idea that just anyone can handle modern weapons systems.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
2,956 posts, read 4,382,011 times
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Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
As a retired Infantry Mortar Sergeant with a degree I take offense to the idea that just anyone can handle modern weapons systems.
Lighten up Sarg.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,172,990 times
Reputation: 8204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
Lighten up Sarg.
Most of the people who look down on the military would not be fit to be soldiers. Let them go hundreds of thousands into debt to get a degree that qualifies them to flip burgers
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:16 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,518 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is where private schools have the advantage. I am amazed at how much more teaching I can do now that I'm in a school where behavior problems are rare.
Ivorytickler, I agree with a lot of what you say in this thread, but I want to point something out that you may be overlooking regarding being seen as a bad teacher versus a good teacher.

Teachers need a variety of skills to be effective: content knowledge, ability to effectively teach their content, organizations skills, effective communicator (with students, parents, administrators), classroom management skills just to name a few.

The PERFECT teacher would excel in each and every area, but just like all human beings, no teacher is perfect. Each teacher will have his/her strengths and weaknesses. The strengths that are paramount for any given school will vary based on the makeup of that school.

Rather than feel you were considered a 'bad' teacher at your previous school and a 'good' teacher at your present one, wouldn't it be more productive for you to recognize that YOUR strengths are in the areas of content knowledge and ability to have your students push the envelope of learning, for example.

Maybe you were not let go from your previous position because you were considered a bad teacher, but just because your classroom management skills are slightly below what was needed, making you not a 'good fit' for THAT particular school.

In my eyes that does not make you a bad teacher; it is just not where your strength lies. That is ok, and the best thing that could have happened was you being let go from that position. You are now able to freely do what you do best. However, Although it may not be necessary right now, this still does give you an opportunity to work on your area of weakness should you find yourself in need of this skill in the future.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
Ivorytickler, I agree with a lot of what you say in this thread, but I want to point something out that you may be overlooking regarding being seen as a bad teacher versus a good teacher.

Teachers need a variety of skills to be effective: content knowledge, ability to effectively teach their content, organizations skills, effective communicator (with students, parents, administrators), classroom management skills just to name a few.

The PERFECT teacher would excel in each and every area, but just like all human beings, no teacher is perfect. Each teacher will have his/her strengths and weaknesses. The strengths that are paramount for any given school will vary based on the makeup of that school.

Rather than feel you were considered a 'bad' teacher at your previous school and a 'good' teacher at your present one, wouldn't it be more productive for you to recognize that YOUR strengths are in the areas of content knowledge and ability to have your students push the envelope of learning, for example.

Maybe you were not let go from your previous position because you were considered a bad teacher, but just because your classroom management skills are slightly below what was needed, making you not a 'good fit' for THAT particular school.

In my eyes that does not make you a bad teacher; it is just not where your strength lies. That is ok, and the best thing that could have happened was you being let go from that position. You are now able to freely do what you do best. However, Although it may not be necessary right now, this still does give you an opportunity to work on your area of weakness should you find yourself in need of this skill in the future.

The point, which you missed, is that NOTHING changed about me but how I'm viewed is night and day.

While I do agree that all teachers have their weaknesses, administrators should be working with the teachers on that. The sharp increase in passing rates on the state tests during the years I was at the charter should have been worth the administrators backing me up when it came to discipline but it wasn't. THAT was of no value to the school.

Where I am now, I am backed by the administrators but I've never had to actually use that. You see my students KNOW that teachers are backed by the administrators so they don't go there. I don't think I was a bad teacher in my old school. That's the whole point of my post. I'm saying that there are things the teacher does not control that can result in them being seen as bad or good.

Interestingly, we will not see an increase in passing scores in this school because we're already way up there where gains are hard to come by. But I'm seen as a good teacher because, in part, I don't have behavior issues in my classroom. Which, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with how my students were raised. I'm valued here because of my subject matter expertise and experience. Unfortunately, my school is unusual. So another teacher just like me ends up being called a bad teacher.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:52 AM
 
613 posts, read 809,518 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The point, which you missed, is that NOTHING changed about me but how I'm viewed is night and day.

While I do agree that all teachers have their weaknesses, administrators should be working with the teachers on that. The sharp increase in passing rates on the state tests during the years I was at the charter should have been worth the administrators backing me up when it came to discipline but it wasn't. THAT was of no value to the school.

Where I am now, I am backed by the administrators but I've never had to actually use that. You see my students KNOW that teachers are backed by the administrators so they don't go there. I don't think I was a bad teacher in my old school. That's the whole point of my post. I'm saying that there are things the teacher does not control that can result in them being seen as bad or good.

Interestingly, we will not see an increase in passing scores in this school because we're already way up there where gains are hard to come by. But I'm seen as a good teacher because, in part, I don't have behavior issues in my classroom. Which, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with how my students were raised. I'm valued here because of my subject matter expertise and experience. Unfortunately, my school is unusual. So another teacher just like me ends up being called a bad teacher.
No, unfortunately, you missed the point.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,747,102 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop View Post
No, unfortunately, you missed the point.
Given I was the one trying to make the point....I don't think so....

I was considered bad enough to fire in my last teaching job. Now I'm considered a good teacher. NOTHING about me changed. But how I am viewed is night and day. The difference is my students.
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