U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-25-2011, 04:51 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,769,290 times
Reputation: 13621

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv View Post
You really have to love it. Teaching has to be your religion.

The main question most of us teachers have is why doesn't a country of reasonably intelligent people value teachers a lot more?
Well, I'm not sure of the "country of reasonably intelligent people"

But, teachers are an easy target. First of all, everyone has been to school and, therefore, has an opinion. Second, and linked to the first, too many people think they know how to teach as well as or better than professional teachers. Third, teachers are paid out of public money and become a political football. Fourth, too many parents will always side with their kids no matter what the facts and circumstances. Fifth, the money is rotten so it will always be hard to attract really good teachers and that will lead to a level of mediocrity (not you, in general). Sixth ... etc. etc.

I don't agree with gifts for teachers. But I do think they should be paid properly and receive adequate supplies to do the job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-25-2011, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,624,097 times
Reputation: 6480
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv View Post
You really have to love it. Teaching has to be your religion.

The main question most of us teachers have is why doesn't a country of reasonably intelligent people value teachers a lot more?
People value those who contribute, and there has not been a great deal that teachers have contributed to society lately. Particularly when more than 20% fail to graduate high school, and only 40% are proficient in their grade level for reading and arithmetic.

When teachers produce a better product, you will find that their value will increase.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
679 posts, read 509,728 times
Reputation: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
People value those who contribute, and there has not been a great deal that teachers have contributed to society lately. Particularly when more than 20% fail to graduate high school, and only 40% are proficient in their grade level for reading and arithmetic.

When teachers produce a better product, you will find that their value will increase.
That's a horrible analogy to place on the situation that more likely than not is out of the teacher's hands. When we hamstring teacher's to teaching to the test, and place huge obstacles for them and remove loads of support to then say well these numbers are bad so you don't deserve money, is bs.

and look up historic numbers on those percentages and you'll learn that 20% failure rate is actually pretty damn good. Start looking back at the 40's, 50's, 60's, the rates are worse
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,624,097 times
Reputation: 6480
Quote:
Originally Posted by eborg View Post
That's a horrible analogy to place on the situation that more likely than not is out of the teacher's hands. When we hamstring teacher's to teaching to the test, and place huge obstacles for them and remove loads of support to then say well these numbers are bad so you don't deserve money, is bs.

and look up historic numbers on those percentages and you'll learn that 20% failure rate is actually pretty damn good. Start looking back at the 40's, 50's, 60's, the rates are worse
Historically, before Democrats created the Department of Education, US test scores were much higher in reading, science, and mathematics. In fact, between 1968 (when they started issuing these standardized tests in 21 developed nations) and 1980 (the year the Democrats created the Department of Education), the US always ranked in the top 10 in every category.

Since 1980 the US would be lucky to rank in the top 20 out of 21 nations in any of those categories. If teachers cannot teach, they should not be in the profession. Teachers for the last 30 years could have stayed home and done absolutely nothing, and we still would not have done much worse.

Are we paying teachers to teach something, or are we paying them to maintain illiteracy and the status quo? I thought it was the former, but it appears to be the latter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,769 posts, read 15,499,803 times
Reputation: 24301
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonlime22 View Post
LOVING my kiddos being in school these past two days!

Was surprised to find a letter in my daughter's backpack with an envelope attached with the words "due Friday" on it.

It was a letter from another teacher (and co-worker) announcing my daughter's teacher's birthday. It would be "VERY helpful" for me to send some cash to school so that this friend/teacher could buy the teacher (from the class) with the birthday a gift card to a nice restaurant to dine with "her husband and children" so that she will "know how much we appreciate her".

WHAT?! I just met her a couple days ago! Isn't Christmas, Valentine's Day, Teacher Appreciation Day and and end of school year gift enough? Apparently not.

There seems to be no end to their tactless begging. A couple years ago one of my daughter's teacher's alerted us to her Amazon page. Last year my other daughter's teacher not only sent out a "wish list" (she wanted a director's chair) highlighting favorite colors, stores, and restaurants, but things she DIDN'T like. "No coffee or hand lotion, please".

I don't know if this is done in other regions of the country--most of my friends have older kids. It DOES seem to get worse every year...

If I weren't worried it would come back to bite my kids (you gotta wonder) I would complain to the District. This has really gotten out of hand. And I hate when these 'room moms' get my kids to nag me for the gifts/cash. "Mommy, don't forget we're buying Mrs. So-and-So a pedicure before she goes on maternity leave! Nathan's mommy said they need the money RIGHT NOW!"

And if you're a teacher who thinks I'm an awful mom, too bad. You get paid, you have awesome health benefits, you have a pension plan, a union that will never fire you, you have ALL summer off, Christmas, Spring break, and most postal holidays off! Quit yer bellyachin'!

Tell me I'm not alone...
You are not alone. I find their begging to be highly insulting and low class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 06:53 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,916,542 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
You are not alone. I find their begging to be highly insulting and low class.
Let's add to that list the soliciting for kids' candy sales, girl scout cookies, United Way....and how about the endless donating for baby showers, wedding showers, etc.....it's not just raising money for teachers. Every job has its share of money begging. Feel free to say no.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,047 posts, read 98,981,287 times
Reputation: 31537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Historically, before Democrats created the Department of Education, US test scores were much higher in reading, science, and mathematics. In fact, between 1968 (when they started issuing these standardized tests in 21 developed nations) and 1980 (the year the Democrats created the Department of Education), the US always ranked in the top 10 in every category.

Since 1980 the US would be lucky to rank in the top 20 out of 21 nations in any of those categories. If teachers cannot teach, they should not be in the profession. Teachers for the last 30 years could have stayed home and done absolutely nothing, and we still would not have done much worse.

Are we paying teachers to teach something, or are we paying them to maintain illiteracy and the status quo? I thought it was the former, but it appears to be the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I went to school during the 1960s, and it was the parent's responsibility to provide all the school supplies, buy the books, and pay for any hot lunches provided by the school. If the child wanted to be involved in sports, the parents had to buy the appropriate uniforms and equipment. If the school wanted to raise funds for something that would benefit the school, there would be a bake-sale during the week-end, or a school fair with games and rides. If a teacher wanted to take their class on a field trip, the entire class would participate in raising funds, typically by selling baked goods or going door-to-door selling cupcakes, cookies, or other items.

In short, there was no government involvement, no Department of Education, there were also more teachers than administrators, and the parents paid for everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Only about the liberal art degrees, of which Education is one.

Considering the quality of the product they produce, what is there to thank? Should we be thanking teachers that Johnny cannot read his own high school diploma? Should we be thanking teachers that Sally has to use a calculator because she is incapable of performing basic mathematics?

As baby-sitters teachers are over paid. When they actually start imparting basic knowledge and information to students then you will have cause to thank them, but not until then.

If a police officer refuses to enforce the law and allows criminals to get away, do you thank them? When a fireman stands and watches your home burn to the ground, do you thank them? When sanitation workers refuse to pick up your garbage for weeks on end, do you thank them? Of course not, that would be incredibly stupid. When they actually do their job, and do it well, THEN they are worthy of our thanks. It is no different for teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
People value those who contribute, and there has not been a great deal that teachers have contributed to society lately. Particularly when more than 20% fail to graduate high school, and only 40% are proficient in their grade level for reading and arithmetic.

When teachers produce a better product, you will find that their value will increase.
Good grief! Such invective against teachers! First, the department of education has been around for a long time, doing much the same things. The dept of education began in 1867. Carter did make it a cabinet level department, but even so, the dept of ed as a cabinet level agency has been in existence since the Eisenhower administration. The idyll you post about from the 60s never existed.

Education is not a liberal arts degree. In many states, high school teachers must major in a subject area and minor in education.

If you can read and write (which it seems you can), thank a teacher.

United States Department of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast View Post
Wow, that must be some district you're in. I have NEVER heard of such a thing as having personal wish lists. Ever. I spent an inordinate number of hours in my kids' school last year and by and large the teachers I have worked with are exceptional people who care very much about doing the best they can with what they are given. Which is very little, in most cases.
My kids' teachers frequently had "wish lists" for the classroom and/or school. Perhaps that was what the director's chair was for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogarven View Post
I am in my 37th year of teaching and I find the incident cited by the OP to be very tacky! At Christmas and Teacher Appreciation Week, all gifts are welcome but the most meaningful gifts I get are cards( homemade cards especially) with notes of appreciation for my efforts. After all, how many coffee mugs can you use? LOL
I have a cousin who was a teacher, and that's what she said too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl View Post
There are definitely some teachers with excellent education backgrouds, but what Glitch said it not without merit:

The Culture Of Low Standards And Significant Grade Inflation For America’s College Education Majors

I would like to see us change the teaching profession be more like Japan, where the teacher gets a degree in a certain discipline and then apprentices with a teacher for a year. That seems to work well there. Of course, Japanese children are also not taught that they are the center of the universe, as so many American children are. Japanese culture in general would provide for a better learning environment- less discipline problems, more respect.

I would not want to teach for even 1/2 a day. I have tremendous respect for wonderful teachers!
I thought the great love affair with Japanese education went out a decade or so ago. In any event, in most states, high school teachers have to major in a subject area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,130 posts, read 9,357,003 times
Reputation: 13215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
People value those who contribute, and there has not been a great deal that teachers have contributed to society lately. Particularly when more than 20% fail to graduate high school, and only 40% are proficient in their grade level for reading and arithmetic.

When teachers produce a better product, you will find that their value will increase.
These student failures aren't squarely on the shoulders of teachers. You have some pretty sucky parents out there who are ooooh so busy and can't be involved with their kid's education. Our failures aren't due to teacher compentency, but rather apathy and being preoccupied with work/play whatever.

Maybe if more parents produce better products, their (as in the kids) value will increase as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,047 posts, read 98,981,287 times
Reputation: 31537
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
These student failures aren't squarely on the shoulders of teachers. You have some pretty sucky parents out there who are ooooh so busy and can't be involved with their kid's education. Our failures aren't due to teacher compentency, but rather apathy and being preoccupied with work/play whatever.

Maybe if more parents produce better products, their (as in the kids) value will increase as well.
Please lay off the parent-bashing, as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 19,624,097 times
Reputation: 6480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
If you can read and write (which it seems you can), thank a teacher.
Actually, I have already thanked my parents for teaching me the basics of reading and writing before I started kindergarten. Nevertheless, I do thank my teachers from the 1960s that taught me "New Math." Both my parents were clueless on the subject, and it became my career. Without learning Base 2, Base 4, Base 8, Base 10, and Base 16 math, I could never have had a 30+ year career programming computers. However, that was more than 40 years ago, and a great deal has changed since then, and not for the good.

I was fortunate to be in school at a time when science and mathematics were emphasized, as a result of the "Space Race."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top