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Old 09-09-2011, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,056 posts, read 99,087,775 times
Reputation: 31544

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
"Kids are not being scammed"

Then why is technical school funding only $1 billion

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/bu...pagewanted=all

Why is it being cut if jobs are going overseas and unemployment is up here in the US?

"Kids are not being scammed"....why is there such an emphasis on testing? Testing kids all the time in math and english....is that going to help them be a competent plumber charging $60 or $100 an hour? Why all the emphasis away from skills?
Why do you feel that the appropriation (and what you put up looks like the federal appropriation only) is a "scam"?
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,056 posts, read 99,087,775 times
Reputation: 31544
Last night I was looking through my local history books. I live in an old coal mining area. I came across this statement (paraphrased): the miners wanted their children to get an education, so they wouldn't have to work in the mines". Now, it seems that some people want their kids to go back in the mines, so to speak. We should value the opportunities our kids have.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,764 posts, read 7,714,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Last night I was looking through my local history books. I live in an old coal mining area. I came across this statement (paraphrased): the miners wanted their children to get an education, so they wouldn't have to work in the mines". Now, it seems that some people want their kids to go back in the mines, so to speak. We should value the opportunities our kids have.
I don't think that's what people who are promoting the idea of having other options in high school are promoting at all. I think there is a dearth of imagination on this thread.

How about we accept that economy and the world are changing and that what we really need are people that can adapt to the changes, learn to work in teams and think creatively. But schooling as delivered now doesn't achieve those means. I argue that young people need to be exposed to a myriad of options so that they discover what their talents/interests are and then they have an avenue to pursue whatever area where they thrive.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,056 posts, read 99,087,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
I don't think that's what people who are promoting the idea of having other options in high school are promoting at all. I think there is a dearth of imagination on this thread.

How about we accept that economy and the world are changing and that what we really need are people that can adapt to the changes, learn to work in teams and think creatively. But schooling as delivered now doesn't achieve those means. I argue that young people need to be exposed to a myriad of options so that they discover what their talents/interests are and then they have an avenue to pursue whatever area where they thrive.
The economy has always been changing. My profession, nursing, has changed sooo much since I graduated in 1970. Back then, most health care was hospital-based, and there were lots of jobs for hospital nurses. Now, you have to practically be at death's door before you go to the hospital. Nursing jobs have changed along with that.

I disagree that "schooling as delivered now doesn't achieve those means" as a blanket statement. I don't think funneling kids into "trades" at 15-16 years old is exposing them to myriads of options, either.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,056 posts, read 99,087,775 times
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I just saw this post in the Colleges and Universities forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bomgd3 View Post
College grads always like to say that too many people are going to college, but if you ask them if their OWN kids are going to college, they'll always give you the same answer.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,764 posts, read 7,714,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I just saw this post in the Colleges and Universities forum:
I personally know a guy who went to college, holds a Harvard MBA and thinks that unless his kids want to go into a credentialed field, they would be wasting time in college. I am the same way. If my son wants to make films, program, or become an entrepreneur, there may be no need for a traditional college education. I have a BA and a JD. So there are two college grads that would give you a different answer.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,056 posts, read 99,087,775 times
Reputation: 31544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
I personally know a guy who went to college, holds a Harvard MBA and thinks that unless his kids want to go into a credentialed field, they would be wasting time in college. I am the same way. If my son wants to make films, program, or become an entrepreneur, there may be no need for a traditional college education. I have a BA and a JD. So there are two college grads that would give you a different answer.
Well, that's a constrained view of what college education is supposed to be all about, for one thing. A lot of people go to college and discover what they want to do during the process.

I'll bet your MBA friend will feel differently when his kids are old enough to go to college. Parents of young kids often seem to think their kids are so mature. The kids get older, the parents learn otherwise.

It's quite doubtful that the economy will change in such a way that people will need less education. History is against that view. Your kid could go to trade school and learn "buggy whip" making. This entrepreneur stuff is over-rated. Aside from Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, who has done this recently? Come to think of it, Gates and Jobs aren't really recent.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,792,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
I don't think that's what people who are promoting the idea of having other options in high school are promoting at all. I think there is a dearth of imagination on this thread.

How about we accept that economy and the world are changing and that what we really need are people that can adapt to the changes, learn to work in teams and think creatively. But schooling as delivered now doesn't achieve those means. I argue that young people need to be exposed to a myriad of options so that they discover what their talents/interests are and then they have an avenue to pursue whatever area where they thrive.
When you replace high school with voc ed, that's exactly what they are proposing. If someone changes their mind later and they never got a high school diploma because they went into a trade, they are that much farther behind and it's that much harder to go to college.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,940 posts, read 18,514,383 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamom1 View Post
I didn't know if this should go here or in the parenting forum but since it has more to do with school I figured it might be better here.

Not all kids are college bound so why are the high schools making it more difficult for kids to graduate? Why are there no options for the kids who aren't going to college and want to learn a trade? The school my son attends used to have a trade program and a college program. They have eliminated the trade program so the college prep one is the only option.

My DS failed a class last year so he went to summer school, which I find out today that he failed that too. The summer school class was all online at the school. The teachers said it was very hard and was for kids who were self motivated. Well, if they were self motivated they wouldn't have failed the class in the first place. How does that make any sense? I understand not wanting to make the summer school classes an easy way out but this is ridiculous. So he is repeating the class this semester. Now if he fails another class this year (which is likely) he won't be able to graduate on time.

My son is no rocket scientist and I know he will not be going to college. He has ADHD and before he was diagnosed he had to repeat a grade in elementary school so he is already 17 and will be 18 before the end of the school year. He just started 11th grade today.

I have a feeling that he will get discouraged with school and drop out. How does that benefit society by adding to the amount of kids that drop out? I understand holding kids to a high standard, but not all kids are very academic. Not all will go to college. Someone has to be the janitors, or fast food workers. Why doesn't our education system accept this?
I don't think the education system is purposely trying to set kids up to fail. I do think it's still trying to make hoards of factory workers in a place that hardly has any more factories though...

Despite our big heads and even bigger ideals, life is still a competion, just like it's always been. Only the strong survive, so to speak. Those who don't become the bottom end laborers and welfare recipients in our society; and the competition is only becoming more fierce as time goes on.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,792,125 times
Reputation: 14503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I don't think the education system is purposely trying to set kids up to fail. I do think it's still trying to make hoards of factory workers in a place that hardly has any more factories though...

Despite our big heads and even bigger ideals, life is still a competion, just like it's always been. Only the strong survive, so to speak. Those who don't become the bottom end laborers and welfare recipients in our society; and the competition is only becoming more fierce as time goes on.
The problem is, we don't have lots of anything. We don't make anything anymore. Manufacturing was our backbone and it's gone and it's not coming back. We're trying to figure out what comes next.

When you don't manufacture anything for sale, it gets hard to have all of your people employed let alone employed at higher levels. It takes generating revenue to keep an economy going. We're not doing very well in this department.
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