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Old 09-10-2011, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,904 posts, read 18,458,797 times
Reputation: 13738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The problem is, we don't have lots of anything. We don't make anything anymore. Manufacturing was our backbone and it's gone and it's not coming back. We're trying to figure out what comes next.

When you don't manufacture anything for sale, it gets hard to have all of your people employed let alone employed at higher levels. It takes generating revenue to keep an economy going. We're not doing very well in this department.
No, we're not... The US education system is entirely outmoded. The USA itself will be soon be outmoded too, as the powers that be are too busy trying to bail out a sinking ship instead of moving on to the next thing.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
No, we're not... The US education system is entirely outmoded. The USA itself will be soon be outmoded too, as the powers that be are too busy trying to bail out a sinking ship instead of moving on to the next thing.
What is the next thing that we need to move on to???

I agree that we are outmoded but I don't see the next thing to move on to. I don't see something we can educate the masses to do that will get our unemployment numbers to drop. Like it or not, you need to export SOMETHING to be ahead in this game and we don't export much anymore. We hardly make cars anymore. We used to make TV's and electronics but you're hard pressed to find any made here now. Our clothes are made in China. Our cars are made in Japan. Our children's toys are made in China or Taiwan. The only thing we seem to have is food and the world will not stand for us hiking the price on food to save our economy. We have medicine too but that's on it's way out. When you take the profit out of medical research, they stop doing medical research and there is no new drug to market in 10 years. BUT prices are being fixed there anyway when it comes to exporting those drugs.

If you know what the next thing is that we should be preparing our kids to do, please share.

I see us going the way of Europe. With government regulations on numbers of hours employees can work. I see us working a shortened work week with lower pay so more people can actually have work...we'll all accept less to share the pain. We'll get by on less. I don't see some next best thing on the horizon that can save our butt. We aren't exporting enough....heck WE don't buy what we make here, why should anyone else?

We need to drill for our own oil. Gas prices may go up because it's more expensive to do anything here BUT the money stays in our country instead of going to the middle east....We need to manufacture ethanol not because it's good for the environement but because it will, naturally, drive the price of corn through the roof and we have corn to sell...We need to start telling the rest of the world that they have to pay the prices our people pay for medicines (we're footing the bill here)...We need to stop being everyone elses police force for free...We need to buy American and/or buy from American companies. For example, both Ugg boots and Minnetonka boots are made in China...however, if you buy Minnetonka's the profits stay here. If you buy Ugg's the profits go to Austrailia. WE need to fix this. Schools can't and governments can't. We did this and now we need to clean up our mess. We need to get protective of our economy.

We also need to accept a shift to multi generational households. The fact is, our kids will not do as well as we did. We need to make sure they're on their feet before we push them out of the nest or, better yet, never push a couple of them out of the nest so we don't have to spend their inheritance on senior housing and assisted living.

Feel free to add what you think Americans need to do to salvage our economy....

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-11-2011 at 04:03 AM..
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,265,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, that's a constrained view of what college education is supposed to be all about, for one thing. A lot of people go to college and discover what they want to do during the process.

I'll bet your MBA friend will feel differently when his kids are old enough to go to college. Parents of young kids often seem to think their kids are so mature. The kids get older, the parents learn otherwise.

It's quite doubtful that the economy will change in such a way that people will need less education. History is against that view. Your kid could go to trade school and learn "buggy whip" making. This entrepreneur stuff is over-rated. Aside from Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, who has done this recently? Come to think of it, Gates and Jobs aren't really recent.

Isn't it ironic that what Gates and Jobs created has helped eliminate many 'human' jobs?

In health care (for example) take Electronic Medical Records. Anyone who is contemplating a career in Medical Transcription ought to throw that option out the window. Doctors will soon (if not already in many areas) dictate into a computer which will then print out a medical history.

In banking, payment/check processing jobs? Gone.

Print shop jobs? Gone.

The list goes on.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:34 AM
 
15,299 posts, read 16,854,240 times
Reputation: 15020
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
Isn't it ironic that what Gates and Jobs created has helped eliminate many 'human' jobs?

In health care (for example) take Electronic Medical Records. Anyone who is contemplating a career in Medical Transcription ought to throw that option out the window. Doctors will soon (if not already in many areas) dictate into a computer which will then print out a medical history.

In banking, payment/check processing jobs? Gone.

Print shop jobs? Gone.

The list goes on.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,545,770 times
Reputation: 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by mermaid825 View Post
This might sound drastic but you could have him take the GED test now and enroll him in a trade school of some kind. It would be better than him dropping out and he wouldn't have to waste another 2 years in a high school that is not meeting his needs.
I agree. Higher education isn't for everyone. My husband was a bit of a party boy in HS, and instead of graduating, he got his GED. Went straight to work as a Teamster, then joined the Army. I thought he would be blue collar factory work for his life, but he decided differently. Now he's out, he's working on his Master's in English Lit, while working a a plant supervisor.

He's more than intelligent enough, his motivation was geared in other places besides education at that time. Now that he is older, he realizes how important knowledge is and is grabbling it by the fistfuls.

MaMom, maybe your son is like my husband? Or maybe he is better suited to learn a valuable skill at trade school through a Vo-tech type program. Have you sat him down and asked him him honest opinion on all of it?

Either way, good luck; ADHD is no fun.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:39 PM
 
15,758 posts, read 13,184,034 times
Reputation: 19646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
When you replace high school with voc ed, that's exactly what they are proposing. If someone changes their mind later and they never got a high school diploma because they went into a trade, they are that much farther behind and it's that much harder to go to college.
My school district takes the kids on either end, the top 10% academically go to the academies and those who are struggling in the traditional school system have the option to go to our voc programs. I see nothing wrong with voc-ed and think for many kids it is a great service to them and the community.

Many very intelligent people have gifts in areas which do not typically lead to college. Mechanical, plumbing, culinary etc are examples of the quality programs available to kids. Unfortunately there is some sort of stigma typically attached to this type of program. In our district, and most voc programs in my state, the kids come out of these programs with some sort of certification in their field AND a regular diploma.

But because voc doesn't get the press it doesn't get as much money. That is unfair.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,004 posts, read 98,863,560 times
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How to Become a Plumber | Education and Career Roadmap
***Step 1: Earn a high school diploma
***Step 2: Get Professional Training
***Step 3: Complete an Apprenticeship
*********These programs last from 4-5 years and combine paid on-the-job training with classroom instruction


OK, I'm up to my limit. You'll have to read the rest by clicking on the link.

How to Become an Auto Mechanic | eHow.com
Similar steps. A little more flexible.

How To Be A Chef
No matter what anybody says, no chef has ever mastered any dish without constant study and practice. As a budding chef yourself, you need to be prepared to put effort into learning the craft, as well as spending a great deal of time doing so.

If you want to make the kind of money that goes with any successful profession, you will need to log in the hours and experience, and you must be willing to start small.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,545,770 times
Reputation: 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
If someone changes their mind later and they never got a high school diploma because they went into a trade, they are that much farther behind and it's that much harder to go to college.

Dunno where you are getting this mess at.

When I graduated HS, we had 3 types of diplomas (only a small code on the bottom was different between the 3) tech w/cert, general ed, and AP/college bound. Unless you knew the code, or checked out transcripts, then you would never know the difference.

I am currently in college now, and the number of children (yes IMO they are children even at 19 or 20) that are in the non-credited remedial classes is mindblowing!!! These are the kids that just graduated HS recently. IMO, some of them should still be there (in HS). IMO, unless you have a handicap (of any sorts) no one should have to take a remedial reading class in college (ENG 30?! WTF!?!?!?), like so many I see on campus daily.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
My school district takes the kids on either end, the top 10% academically go to the academies and those who are struggling in the traditional school system have the option to go to our voc programs. I see nothing wrong with voc-ed and think for many kids it is a great service to them and the community.

Many very intelligent people have gifts in areas which do not typically lead to college. Mechanical, plumbing, culinary etc are examples of the quality programs available to kids. Unfortunately there is some sort of stigma typically attached to this type of program. In our district, and most voc programs in my state, the kids come out of these programs with some sort of certification in their field AND a regular diploma.

But because voc doesn't get the press it doesn't get as much money. That is unfair.
The issue I see is that a high school diploma is so basic today. We're really not asking kids to be able to do much to get one. IMO, it's the least they should have. I think it's a mistake to replace it with a voc-ed program. In addition to, fine but don't replace it. Kids should know basic math and english and science and history. There's no reason they shouldn't graduate being able to read on a 9th grade level. The kids who are taking college prep courses will, of course, have more.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife View Post
Dunno where you are getting this mess at.

When I graduated HS, we had 3 types of diplomas (only a small code on the bottom was different between the 3) tech w/cert, general ed, and AP/college bound. Unless you knew the code, or checked out transcripts, then you would never know the difference.

I am currently in college now, and the number of children (yes IMO they are children even at 19 or 20) that are in the non-credited remedial classes is mindblowing!!! These are the kids that just graduated HS recently. IMO, some of them should still be there (in HS). IMO, unless you have a handicap (of any sorts) no one should have to take a remedial reading class in college (ENG 30?! WTF!?!?!?), like so many I see on campus daily.
How much further behind would they be if they had stopped taking high school classes in 9th grade and had been placed in a vo-tech pogram instead? You actually make one of my points and that is that a high school diploma is SOOOOO basic that anyone should be able to get one with minimal effort. That being the case, why would we excuse kids from getting one in favor of a voc-ed cert?

A high school diploma does not mean what it meant 50 years ago. Not even close. Today's high school diploma is closer to the 8th grade education my dad had. We've dummied down high school to the point the diploma has little meaning and we're arguing that we should let some kids do even less????

The fact is you can go on to a voc-ed program after finishing high school. Unfortunately, you are correct in your assessment that a high school diploma does not mean you're ready for college, which has me baffled because people are up in arms about high school being college prep. It's only college prep for the top students. For everyone else, it's just basics and many of them will need remedial classes in college if they go but think of where they'd be without even those basics.

I also agree with your assessment that the 19 adn 20 year olds in college are children. They're children because they've been coddled. Instead of someone telling them to knuckle down and do the VERY basic work it takes to graduate, they've had excuses made for them. IMO, excusing kids from a diploma in favor of voc-ed is just more excuses as to why our kids can't do even the basics. I fear this country has no hope.
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