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Old 09-11-2011, 06:58 PM
 
4,830 posts, read 4,843,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ATX View Post
I believe the system is setting them up to fail and here's why:

My kid got perfect attendance in 1st grade last year but was not recognized for it in the end of the year ceremony, BUT some parents of the kids who were bad in class were told that "it's ok" to have a "day off" if your kid is not up to a long say at school.

WTF??????!!!!!
It's nice to know that some parents still have some common sense left not to transform their kids into school attending zombies.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,860,585 times
Reputation: 14504
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I think this may again be a state issue.

In my state there are end of course exams in order to get a diploma. In order to get out of high school all kids needed to pass an exam on algebra and geometry, grade 11 reading comprehension and writing as well as passing end of course exams on biology and chemistry. For the majority of students this is fine but there are many students who cannot pass all of these things but can still be successful. I now many kids who were fine except for the math, and really are we saying that if you cannot pass an algebra II exam you are not worthy of a high school diploma?

This is all due to NCLB, but it is absolutely asinine to claim that a child cannot earn a high school diploma without passing end of year exams geared specifically at the college bound. In my state even those with LDs have to pass them. Its crazy.
We don't have to pass state exams to graduate. Isn't there an option for taking a lower diploma and skipping the exams?? If the state exams are geared towards the college bound, then your diploma is geared towards the college bound. Here it may or may not be geared towards the college bound. It depends on what the individual child took for classes. We have kids graduate with nothing more than the basics and kids who have 16 college credits under their belt. We couldn't do that if they all had to pass an exam geared towards the college bound to graduate.

Sorry, sometimes I forget that the definition of high school graduate varies widely from state to state. THAT shouldn't be because we are becomming a transient society.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,156 posts, read 99,373,671 times
Reputation: 31619
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ATX View Post
I believe the system is setting them up to fail and here's why:

My kid got perfect attendance in 1st grade last year but was not recognized for it in the end of the year ceremony, BUT some parents of the kids who were bad in class were told that "it's ok" to have a "day off" if your kid is not up to a long say at school.

WTF??????!!!!!
Many schools don't "reward" perfect attendance b/c it encourages kids to come to school sick. There are times when they should stay home, e.g. newly diagnosed strep, pinkeye, etc.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:26 PM
 
2,918 posts, read 2,928,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
We don't have to pass state exams to graduate. Isn't there an option for taking a lower diploma and skipping the exams?? If the state exams are geared towards the college bound, then your diploma is geared towards the college bound. Here it may or may not be geared towards the college bound. It depends on what the individual child took for classes. We have kids graduate with nothing more than the basics and kids who have 16 college credits under their belt. We couldn't do that if they all had to pass an exam geared towards the college bound to graduate.

Sorry, sometimes I forget that the definition of high school graduate varies widely from state to state. THAT shouldn't be because we are becomming a transient society.
Our students must pass exams to graduate. And our district has moved to a college-bound-for-all diploma track. Only occupational diploma students are exempt from having to take college-prep courses. They have to take the exams, too, but I'm not sure if they have to pass them to get the occupational diploma. Other special ed students must still pass the state tests if they want a regular diploma. We do not have anything other than regular and special ed tracks anymore. The vo-tech students must pass the state tests and take the college prep track too. It makes students drop out because they can't pass the tests or aren't inclined to spend their time prepping for them.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,060,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
If I got it right you want "better" education and more vacation training so the prices of educated labor would fall to the acceptable levels? That's where education system setting kids up to fail achieving lower wages?

I'm sorry but hourly charges of electricians and the rest of the licensed tradesmen and professionals (including lawyers, doctors, nurses, PE and so on) are high not because of the lack of education and training among youngings but because of the licensing process limiting the supply. For example, Ph.D. supply is not regulated and you can easily find a fresh Ph.D. "willing" to work his way up 24/7 for anywhere from 23k to 40K/year, and many Ph.D. holders will do this low wage temping for many, many years before making it to the trough or being discarded.
It's not just limited supply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/bu...pagewanted=all

This new york times article says in greensboro, nc, entry level machining jobs pay $14-20 hour. I think its interesting, some think we're going to scar students for life if we send them in that direction.

I think its a sham because they are not letting kids get work experience and gain maturity.....then they can go back to college or upgrade their skills. There's this push to make everybody a round peg, and get them into algebra II, higher math, electives they don't need....and get them into this academic track.

-Another problem with this college for all mantra (and why it's a scam).....just because you hold a masters or phd....it doesn't really mean you're that smart. Thus the market doesn't pay much for some ph d's.

Look at the economic problems lately. A lot of supposedly "bright" people didn't see the housing crash, economic recession, downturn, etc. Look at the mess on wall st, all these ph d's and ivy league credentials. Just because you have a masters or ph d, it doesn't mean you have common sense, or you really know whats going on.

It depends on the field obviously. But in many cases, higher education becomes vary narrow, abstract and theoretical (with the accompanying low earning potential).

-Here in LA, the system is absolutely setting kids up to fail.

A Formula for Failure in L.A. Schools - latimes.com

44% of 48,000 9th graders flunked beginning algebra. Then they just keep trying to retake it. They should be going back to basic math, and mastering that. Not taking 6 algebra classes, and barely passing. Its completely crazy.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:01 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,573,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
How much further behind would they be if they had stopped taking high school classes in 9th grade and had been placed in a vo-tech pogram instead?
Actually, the program I was talking about was in ADDITION to your regular classes. They were gone from the beginning of the day, and came back to the HS right at 2nd lunch to take the basic classes.

You still had to take math, science, english, etc... But instead of picking band, or typing, or French as electives, you chose the Vo-tech route. And WHY? Cause the Vo-tech school had a 87% employment rate right out of HS in the chosen field. When you graduated HS, you were already certified in your chosen path, no college needed. Just get hired and go to work. These guys and girls came out of HS as certified welders, carpenters, beauticians, electricians, etc...
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,156 posts, read 99,373,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife View Post
Actually, the program I was talking about was in ADDITION to your regular classes. They were gone from the beginning of the day, and came back to the HS right at 2nd lunch to take the basic classes.

You still had to take math, science, english, etc... But instead of picking band, or typing, or French as electives, you chose the Vo-tech route. And WHY? Cause the Vo-tech school had a 87% employment rate right out of HS in the chosen field. When you graduated HS, you were already certified in your chosen path, no college needed. Just get hired and go to work. These guys and girls came out of HS as certified welders, carpenters, beauticians, electricians, etc...
Oh, no they didn't, not as welders or electricians anyway.

Electricians

Apprenticeship programs usually last 4 years. Each year includes at least 144 hours of classroom instruction and 2,000 hours of on-the-job training. In the classroom, apprentices learn electrical theory, blueprint reading, mathematics, electrical code requirements, and safety and first aid practices. They also may receive specialized training in soldering, communications, fire alarm systems, and cranes and elevators.

How To Become A Welder

While it once sufficed to learn on-the-job without formal training, nowadays it is generally necessary to acquire a complete skill set at a trade or vocational school to become a welder.

Read more: How to Become a Welder | eHow.com How to Become a Welder | eHow.com


I don't understand why people think 18 year old kids can go out and get hired in high paying trade jobs with no apprenticeships, etc. Most likely they would start as an electrician's or welder's assistant, and the path to being fully certified may take as long as a college degree.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:04 AM
 
5,715 posts, read 5,162,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post

I don't understand why people think 18 year old kids can go out and get hired in high paying trade jobs with no apprenticeships, etc. Most likely they would start as an electrician's or welder's assistant, and the path to being fully certified may take as long as a college degree.
Maybe the confusion comes because apprenticeships usually pay?
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:42 AM
 
616 posts, read 707,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Many schools don't "reward" perfect attendance b/c it encourages kids to come to school sick. There are times when they should stay home, e.g. newly diagnosed strep, pinkeye, etc.
This makes NO SENSE whatsoever.

It's already understood that you don't send a kid to school with the flu or chicken pox., BUT when the kid works hard to BE THERE, not sick of course, they SHOULD be rewarded.

It's not my fault if parents drop the ball on keeping their kids healthy. If they stopped feeding them McDonald's and watch TV til midnight, maybe their kids wouldn't get sick all the time and be at school, where they SHOULD be.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:46 AM
 
616 posts, read 707,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
It's nice to know that some parents still have some common sense left not to transform their kids into school attending zombies.
and It's even better to know that some parents don't make excuses for their kids being absent.

school attending zombies? let me guess, you LOVED to skip school?

It's people like you that think going to school is an option but when your kid gets held back for lack of mental capabilities to advance you wanna go into an outrage and sue the school for keeping back a brat. some people..
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