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Old 09-01-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
So maybe we should think of policies that would bring these occupations back?...
So many occupations in America today are so useless it is downright pathetic. Much of the American economy is a huge fraud. We're not producing much of anything, just packaging and re-packaging ultimately useless and often harmful ideas.
LOL, Policies won't do it. America would never stand for the policies that would work because they would hit them in the wallet. We are penny wise and pound foolish. Case in point: Japan flooded our market with cheap electronics and now there is no US electronics industry. We'd rather buy cheap foriegn goods than spend more on goods made here so people can have decent paying jobs. Until you change that mindset, we will continue to spiral downward. And to be honest, I think it's too late to change that mindset. There are too few industries left where we even make anything here. I was suprised to find that even Minnetonka boots are now made in China.....

And we're not done. Education is next. I predict education will go on line. Teachers will be replaced with para's whose job it is to police kids who are working on line. Interestingly, about the only jobs that will stay here are....drum roll please.....service sector jobs....the very ones this thread is about BUT there aren't enough service sector jobs to go around.

Temporarily, medical jobs will increase, as the baby boomers age, and that will give us a push towards a more stable economy but that is temporary. Maybe 20 years at most and then there will be a glut of medical workers.

We shot ourselves in the foot because we went shopping for a bargain. If you want to fix this, slap tarriffs on foriegn goods to drive the price up. In time, US industries will start up because they will be able to compete with the new higher prices for foriegn goods. HOWEVER, be prepared to have LESS. Your dollar will not go as far. So, the idea of buying disposable goods will have to go as will our love with shopping and new things.

If you really want to see this change, buy American and refuse to buy foriegn. Choose to make do instead of send money overseas. Can't find a coat made in the USA? See if you can find a tailor to make you one. It won't be name brand and you'll need to make it last because it's going to cost you but the money will stay here. The power is in your hands.

Oh, and remember, even though many foriegn cars are made here and many components of US cars are made abroad, remember that the profits go to the country of origin for the company. We are better off if people buy cars from US companies that use lots of foriegn parts than we are if people buy foriegn cars where fewer foriegn parts are used because the profits stay here.

I agree with you that much of our economy is a fraud. We really don't make anything here anymore. I'm afraid we did this to ourselves and will have to fix it ourselves. Unfortunately, it won't happen. When I had a good paying job, I tried to buy American. Now I don't have a good paying job so I can't even afford to look. I know we're spiraling downward but I can't fix this. Only a mass effort can and I don't see one on the horizon. The only two things America has to negotiate with are food and medicine and the world would not stand for us raising prices on those to help our own economy. WE sold the farm. And now we want it back. Sorry, it's sold. Get used to your new reality.

With school starting, I really don't have the time to do this but if someone wants to take on the task of compiling a list of things still made in the US, it might help the rest of us make good choices. If we make it a point to buy American whenever we can and only to buy when we really need something replaced when we don't have an American choice (doesn't help our economy but helps our bank account and leaves more to spend on other things that are made here.) we could make an impact. If we want to see our economy grow, we need to quit shopping for bargains and start protecting our own interests. Unfortunately, this is a long term project. It will be years before we start seeing results but it will be better in the long run.
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:14 PM
 
15,294 posts, read 16,849,408 times
Reputation: 15020
Don't reinvent the wheel

American Made Products and/or Services Made in USA
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Thanks.

While it's not likely we'll bring back industry that has left, we can spend out money where it makes the most difference.

Darn....I need a new refrigerator and the list comes up null for appliances. Doesn't anyone make appliances here anymore?
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:57 PM
 
5,646 posts, read 5,111,322 times
Reputation: 10162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamom1 View Post
I didn't know if this should go here or in the parenting forum but since it has more to do with school I figured it might be better here.

Not all kids are college bound so why are the high schools making it more difficult for kids to graduate? Why are there no options for the kids who aren't going to college and want to learn a trade? The school my son attends used to have a trade program and a college program. They have eliminated the trade program so the college prep one is the only option.

My DS failed a class last year so he went to summer school, which I find out today that he failed that too. The summer school class was all online at the school. The teachers said it was very hard and was for kids who were self motivated. Well, if they were self motivated they wouldn't have failed the class in the first place. How does that make any sense? I understand not wanting to make the summer school classes an easy way out but this is ridiculous. So he is repeating the class this semester. Now if he fails another class this year (which is likely) he won't be able to graduate on time.

My son is no rocket scientist and I know he will not be going to college. He has ADHD and before he was diagnosed he had to repeat a grade in elementary school so he is already 17 and will be 18 before the end of the school year. He just started 11th grade today.

I have a feeling that he will get discouraged with school and drop out. How does that benefit society by adding to the amount of kids that drop out? I understand holding kids to a high standard, but not all kids are very academic. Not all will go to college. Someone has to be the janitors, or fast food workers. Why doesn't our education system accept this?
The short answer to your question is that once upon a time, a system like you desire existed. Students were "tracked" into paths that theoretically fit their abilities, and vocational education was one of those tracks. And as someone else alluded, it was discovered that often, the children of the poor and/or minorities were tracked towards the lower paying trades, and the children of the privileged were often tacked towards college (and therefore management and white collar jobs). It was determined that the teachers/administrators in charge of deciding who followed what path may be exercising those choices with some degree of bias, even if it was done subconsciously. Also,research began to uncover cases of kids who were late bloomers, kids who were smart but not good in the classroom format (talked back too much, etc), students who has undiscovered but treatable learning disabilities... all screwed over by the tracking system. So trackng fell out of favor, and so did vocational training, because it was seen as an excuse to sell children short.

Now I do agree that there was some throwing the baby out with the bathwater there. There really is nothing wrong with learning a trade... as long as the process of deciding who goes were is done in a fair and equitable way. But instead of trying to figure out how that way could be formed they just stopped doing it all together.

I also agree with Ivory that there are a whole lot of parents who would NOT accept the idea that Johnny should be a carpenter or Sally should be a hairdresser, even if it is true. People these days are convinced that college is the only acceptable way to success.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,256 posts, read 4,910,950 times
Reputation: 3014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, baloney! The federal share of education dollars is ~10%, which includes the school lunch program. Local control is alive and well here in CO.

Didn't your governor refuse the federal money to not have to deal with NCLB? Good for you that CO can stand tough and maintain local control.

Unfortunately our state has some of the highest taxes and most elected officis will not risk losing any federal money. Our municpalities are already having to fund many unfunded mandates. With Race to the Top the stakes are even higher. There is a strong belief that politics (our senator supported McCain) negatively impacted our standing in the competition for funds.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:56 PM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,947,709 times
Reputation: 3819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
LOL, Policies won't do it. America would never stand for the policies that would work because they would hit them in the wallet. We are penny wise and pound foolish. Case in point: Japan flooded our market with cheap electronics and now there is no US electronics industry. We'd rather buy cheap foriegn goods than spend more on goods made here so people can have decent paying jobs. Until you change that mindset, we will continue to spiral downward. And to be honest, I think it's too late to change that mindset. There are too few industries left where we even make anything here. I was suprised to find that even Minnetonka boots are now made in China.....

And we're not done. Education is next. I predict education will go on line. Teachers will be replaced with para's whose job it is to police kids who are working on line. Interestingly, about the only jobs that will stay here are....drum roll please.....service sector jobs....the very ones this thread is about BUT there aren't enough service sector jobs to go around.

Temporarily, medical jobs will increase, as the baby boomers age, and that will give us a push towards a more stable economy but that is temporary. Maybe 20 years at most and then there will be a glut of medical workers.

We shot ourselves in the foot because we went shopping for a bargain. If you want to fix this, slap tarriffs on foriegn goods to drive the price up. In time, US industries will start up because they will be able to compete with the new higher prices for foriegn goods. HOWEVER, be prepared to have LESS. Your dollar will not go as far. So, the idea of buying disposable goods will have to go as will our love with shopping and new things.

If you really want to see this change, buy American and refuse to buy foriegn. Choose to make do instead of send money overseas. Can't find a coat made in the USA? See if you can find a tailor to make you one. It won't be name brand and you'll need to make it last because it's going to cost you but the money will stay here. The power is in your hands.

Oh, and remember, even though many foriegn cars are made here and many components of US cars are made abroad, remember that the profits go to the country of origin for the company. We are better off if people buy cars from US companies that use lots of foriegn parts than we are if people buy foriegn cars where fewer foriegn parts are used because the profits stay here.

I agree with you that much of our economy is a fraud. We really don't make anything here anymore. I'm afraid we did this to ourselves and will have to fix it ourselves. Unfortunately, it won't happen. When I had a good paying job, I tried to buy American. Now I don't have a good paying job so I can't even afford to look. I know we're spiraling downward but I can't fix this. Only a mass effort can and I don't see one on the horizon. The only two things America has to negotiate with are food and medicine and the world would not stand for us raising prices on those to help our own economy. WE sold the farm. And now we want it back. Sorry, it's sold. Get used to your new reality.

With school starting, I really don't have the time to do this but if someone wants to take on the task of compiling a list of things still made in the US, it might help the rest of us make good choices. If we make it a point to buy American whenever we can and only to buy when we really need something replaced when we don't have an American choice (doesn't help our economy but helps our bank account and leaves more to spend on other things that are made here.) we could make an impact. If we want to see our economy grow, we need to quit shopping for bargains and start protecting our own interests. Unfortunately, this is a long term project. It will be years before we start seeing results but it will be better in the long run.
I completely agree with buying American (though I was not even born and raised in this country - but I am a citizen now). If I see something made in the USA, I buy it over any other option as I do believe this country needs to go back to producing actual things, the truly NEEDED kind, and high quality. Yes, this will involve dramatic shifts in mindsets but I personally support all those changes you suggested. I am ready to have much less but much better. In fact, I've always operated this way - but I know few people do.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:38 PM
 
553 posts, read 873,375 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I completely agree with buying American (though I was not even born and raised in this country - but I am a citizen now). If I see something made in the USA, I buy it over any other option as I do believe this country needs to go back to producing actual things, the truly NEEDED kind, and high quality. Yes, this will involve dramatic shifts in mindsets but I personally support all those changes you suggested. I am ready to have much less but much better. In fact, I've always operated this way - but I know few people do.
Once we are in this far off-topic )))
I do not think we can make a change by choosing to buy the USA made goods. The impact is negligible. We need the government to protect our market from cheap imports from the countries with cheap labor. This will never happen again, because Americans will never support it, since that would mean price increase on imported goods. Although in the long run such a policy will create jobs here and we will all benefit, but you see, Americans will rather keep loosing jobs then tolerate additional taxes and price increases.
You know, some things made in the US will just never be as good as those made in Asia, like computers or cars. So, there is probably no point in recovering car industry by dumping millons of tax payers dollars into them (like we do now) But I am sure we can make clothes, and other simple items, and sure Americans can handle aswering telephones. So, there is room for improvements, but again, it is painful to most Americans.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:50 PM
 
541 posts, read 797,485 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
I also agree with Ivory that there are a whole lot of parents who would NOT accept the idea that Johnny should be a carpenter or Sally should be a hairdresser, even if it is true. People these days are convinced that college is the only acceptable way to success.
The school district I graduated from is notorious about wanting every student to go to college. They have posters in every classroom and out in the hallways in elementary, middle, and high school.

Even if people did great in high school, had a decent gpa of 3.3 if not higher, they might not want to go to college in the first place. Most people don't know what they want to do when they graduate high school and then there's people who graduate from college who don't know what they want to do and end up doing jobs they could have done with only a high school diploma.......But that's just my .02 on the thing.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dressy View Post
Once we are in this far off-topic )))
I do not think we can make a change by choosing to buy the USA made goods. The impact is negligible. We need the government to protect our market from cheap imports from the countries with cheap labor. This will never happen again, because Americans will never support it, since that would mean price increase on imported goods. Although in the long run such a policy will create jobs here and we will all benefit, but you see, Americans will rather keep loosing jobs then tolerate additional taxes and price increases.
You know, some things made in the US will just never be as good as those made in Asia, like computers or cars. So, there is probably no point in recovering car industry by dumping millons of tax payers dollars into them (like we do now) But I am sure we can make clothes, and other simple items, and sure Americans can handle aswering telephones. So, there is room for improvements, but again, it is painful to most Americans.
You do realize that simple jobs pay simple wages, right? You've just sentenced us to minimum wage jobs.

Why do you think Asia can make computers and we can't? Why do you think we can't make high quality goods? Why do you think we can't make high quality cars? I drive a Ford that has 120K miles on it and I trust it enough to have taken a 3000 mile road trip this past summer. I see quite a few high quality US made cars (now we're still chasing Volvo on safety...). There was a time when we made disposable junk (but that's what the consumers seemed to want) but no more.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-02-2011 at 06:30 AM..
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:29 PM
 
553 posts, read 873,375 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
You do realize that simple jobs pay simple wages, right? You've just sentenced us to minimum wage jobs.

Why do you think Asia can make computers and we can't? Why do you think we can't make high quality goods? Why do you think we can't make high quality cars? I drive a Ford that has 120K miles on it and I trust it enough to have taken a 3000 mile road trip this past summer. I see quite a few high quality US made cars (now we're still chasing Volvo on safety...). There was a time when we made disposable junk (but that's what the consumers seemed to want) but no more.
My main point was there are simple measures that could recover at least some simple industries, that we sure know we could handle.
As for the car industry, l just happen to be from the country where those kind of measures and goverment regulations did not help. II also read a lot about american car industries (mostly novels, but they described very well what the industry is like). So, I simply see no way how these industries could be recovered. I am not sentencing anybody, it is just my oppinion, and it does not mean I am happy about it. I am not here to be blamed for what you guys did to your car industry. I have only been living in this countly for 5 years, and those industries have started to die 20 years ago.
As for the Asia, I think their main strength, is that they have inexpenisive and good quality labor. And this is all. LABOR. Patient , accuarate, reliable asian workers, absence of unions, competition for that kind of jobs. Respect for those jobs. Attitude to work. very scrupulous. Asians and Germans have different kind of society. They do not have "college educated" society. They have society of professionals. Quality control.
My husband happen to work for a company that has a factory in Asia and a factory in Idianapolis. While Indianapolis has great engineers their order prosessing sucks. They can even never report any particular date when the product is going to be manufactured and delivered. Their operations are a mess. His company ended up moving most orders to the Taiwan factory. And the main reason was - Taiwanese guys just do everything on time, always on top of everything. They have 0 problem and complaints from customers regarding receiving their orders.
Would be interesting to hear your suggestion of recovering GE or Ford though. Seriously. Hope the mods do not bann me

Edited to add:
I believe you have a great quality Ford, I believe there are some other good quality cars out there. But true "quality" means consistency. Less variability. You see? You should be more or less sure about what you are buying. I think I do not have to tell you this, that say, with honda - you know pretty well what you are buying. With Ford - it is a gamble.

Last edited by Dressy; 09-02-2011 at 08:57 PM..
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