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Old 09-01-2011, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,178,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
How do homeschoolers deal with teaching subjects like modern languages (e.g. French, German, Spanish) or classical languages such as Latin. I hated Latin at school but my daughter loved it. There is no way I would have been capable of teaching it to the level she finally achieved.
My kids have taken classes online, at the public school parttime, at co-op, and have unschooled in addition to private lessons and the iconic parent-taught homeschool lessons. "Homeschool" doesn't strictly mean Mommy at the Dining Room Table school; it often means parent-coordinated education that doesn't take place in a traditional classroom. In our case, I taught anywhere from 50-80% of their lessons at any given moment. I also teach other homeschoolers at a co-op and coordinate a mixed literary arts class/critique group made up of homeschooled and publicly schooled kids.
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
My personal experiences with HSers were such that none were classified with an ED or LD as would be required to be classified SpEd (504s notwithstanding).
Well, there is always the copout that lifelong homeschoolers may not have diagnoses, or may have diagnosed difficulties to which the schools are not privy. But more to the point, I would submit that unless your personal experience includes thousands of homeschooling families, your experience is hardly a representative sample of...much of anything.

Quote:
But yes I think it would be much more valuable to compare them only to other students of similar socioeconomic status since we know that is the single best predictor of student achievement.

Hardly absurd to control for the variable that is known to have the largest effect.
How have you determined that socioeconomic status-- in the absence of any correlates such as parental education, stability of household makeup, or any other common comorbids-- is the "single best predictor", particularly when applied to a specific cohort, such as homeschooling families? For that matter, how are you measuring parental involvement, and how did you get a decent sized sampling of homeschoolers to give you verifiable and measurable information?
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:06 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,261,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Well, there is always the copout that lifelong homeschoolers may not have diagnoses, or may have diagnosed difficulties to which the schools are not privy. But more to the point, I would submit that unless your personal experience includes thousands of homeschooling families, your experience is hardly a representative sample of...much of anything.
Agreed. I have always been careful to differentiate between my personal experience and actual data. Even so I was unaware of the supposition that the majority of homeschoolers would be classified in a traditional school. Do you have anything to back up such a claim?


Quote:
How have you determined that socioeconomic status-- in the absence of any correlates such as parental education, stability of household makeup, or any other common comorbids-- is the "single best predictor", particularly when applied to a specific cohort, such as homeschooling families?

Maybe you should reread my post. I stated that SES is the best predictor for student achievement in traditional schools of all types even when all other factors are controlled for (including parental education level). The research for this is long and varied but as I am posting from my phone (thanks to Irene) I cannot post any links. I am positive google scholar would be a valuable source if you want to read up on the matter.

Quote:
For that matter, how are you measuring parental involvement, and how did you get a decent sized sampling of homeschoolers to give you verifiable and measurable information?
You do not seem to understand the point of my post. I was critiquing the study presented not presenting my own data. I have repeatedly stated that my personal experiences are limited to gifted students obviously not all homeschoolers are gifted.

Second, if you think that homeschooled children do not have more time of direct parent involvement than the average student in a traditional school I would have to ask why.

The fact remains comparing one population to another without controlling for known variables like SES, than any conclusions are suspect since it's likely other variables are correlating even more strongly. That's what was the flaw in the study presented in this thread.

I also think it would be very valuable to have a large study of both traditional and homeschooled students with similar variables. It would also be interesting to see he success of classified student in both environs. Unfortunately I have never seen such a study and until then anything else is just conjecture.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,178,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Agreed. I have always been careful to differentiate between my personal experience and actual data. Even so I was unaware of the supposition that the majority of homeschoolers would be classified in a traditional school. Do you have anything to back up such a claim?
Never made that claim.


Quote:
You do not seem to understand the point of my post.

This may be the understatement of the century. Perhaps if you backed up your statements, it might be clearer. For someone limited by phone posts, you seem to be managing just fine when the mood strikes you.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:17 PM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,261,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Never made that claim.





This may be the understatement of the century. Perhaps if you backed up your statements, it might be clearer. For someone limited by phone posts, you seem to be managing just fine when the mood strikes you.
Maybe you are unaware put its not possible to cut and paste the type of citation you are asking for when using a mobile phone browser, or at least I am not aware of how to do so. But the good people at JCP&L have been working very hard and I now have power back. So here you go, just a few of the dozens of studies on this subject.

Effect of School Population Socioeconomic Status on Individual Academic Achievement
Stephen J. Caldas and Carl Bankston III
The Journal of Educational Research
Vol. 90, No. 5 (May - Jun., 1997), pp. 269-277

The relation between socioeconomic status and academic achievement.
White, Karl R.
Psychological Bulletin, Vol 91(3), May 1982, 461-481. doi

Predictors of Success in Accelerated and Enrichment Summer Mathematics Courses for Academically Talented Adolescents Young, Worrell, Galbecko. Journal of Advanced Academics August 2011 22: 558-577

Socioeconomic Status and Academic Achievement: A Meta-Analytic Review of Research Sirin, S Review of Educational Research Fall 2005 75: 417-453

Second, I am not sure why you have decided to take a discourse on the merits of a particular study in relation to homeschooling and make it an attack on me personally but it really says more about you than it does about me.

I would still be very interested in seeing the results of the type of study I outlined. To my knowledge (and I readily admit I have only done a perfunctory look at the lit) no large scale study exists looking at the achievement of homeschoolers and traditional students controlling for SE factors. Its a shame that more research funds are not available for this type of study.

If anyone knows of any such study please pm me I would love to read it.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
346 posts, read 429,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
My kids are in their 20's and 30's now, so maybe things are different in schools today. We made sure to live in places where the schools were good, and the other children came from homes in which we had shared values, so I would not have ever homeschooled them.
However, if I had a child in a system that was dangerous or unwholesome or not teaching to a high enough standard, then I would see no other choice but to teach at home. I love the idea of the world being his classroom and being able to gear our learning day to the child, not force him to sit in a classroom all day.
This being said....I really liked to see the kids get on that bus, so I could have peace and time to myself during the day. Don't you homeschool mothers get a bit too much togetherness???
One more thing I just thought of. When I was a Docent at a museum, we would all hide when homeschooled groups came. They were always much worse behaved than classroom children.
Too much togetherness? Not sure what you mean, but I do sometimes miss my alone time, which I still had to carve out of a very busy schedule. Now that the kids are older, 11&13, I can leave them unsupervised, but I am not comfortable doing so for long stretches, so I often bring the kids to work with me where they complete their independent work.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:01 AM
 
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I think most people homeschool their kids, because they have strict christian beliefs, and want their children to have that type of education. I will admit, after meeting some of my kids teachers, homeschooling is not that bad of an idea.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,764 posts, read 7,717,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I think most people homeschool their kids, because they have strict christian beliefs, and want their children to have that type of education. I will admit, after meeting some of my kids teachers, homeschooling is not that bad of an idea.
This is not necessarily true. There are more and more people homeschooling for nonsectarian reasons. We homeschooled for a year and a half and are agnostics. Few of the people we know that home school do so for religious reasons. Some do, but I am not sure you can say most.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:50 AM
 
15,812 posts, read 13,261,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
This is not necessarily true. There are more and more people homeschooling for nonsectarian reasons. We homeschooled for a year and a half and are agnostics. Few of the people we know that home school do so for religious reasons. Some do, but I am not sure you can say most.
Its all conjecture unless someone has some actual data??

The only thing I could find was

Homeschooling in the United States: 2003 - Executive Summary

Which listed 72% of people listing religious reasons as why they homeschooled even if it was not the only reason. So for the majority of homeschoolers religion is certainly a key reason for homeschooling.
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
346 posts, read 429,503 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I think most people homeschool their kids, because they have strict christian beliefs, and want their children to have that type of education. I will admit, after meeting some of my kids teachers, homeschooling is not that bad of an idea.
In my area, East TN, I would have to agree, most other home schoolers appear to be Christian and promoting those values and education. I feel that I am in the minority because out of all the reasons we chose to home school, religion was not even on the list.

Again, this is just in my area, according to the resources I have come across and other home schoolers I have met locally.
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