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Old 09-01-2011, 06:44 AM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,894,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
A hundred years ago, a motivated boy who wanted to work could start earning money around the age of 8 or so. Many of the self-made men were working full time by the age of 12. Do you want to go back to that too? I'm all for kids being able to work full time by the age of 14 or 15, but insurance companies won't let businesses hire them for real jobs.
Why not? A child's education is a parents' responsibility, not the government's and not another parents'. If a child shows talent and promise, why not?
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Why not? A child's education is a parents' responsibility, not the government's and not another parents'. If a child shows talent and promise, why not?
That was my point--insurance companies won't cover them. Most want full time employees to be at least 18 to receive coverage. It's fine to have part time jobs available for 14-year-olds who want to bag groceries, but they usually won't allow a 16-year-old on a construction site due to liability issues.

I think we need a structural change in how we approach secondary education in this country. What we're doing now is clearly not working in many places around the country.
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:07 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,188 posts, read 50,480,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dressy View Post
I think that parents are responible to motivate childrent to learn....



But some people think it is differently in America.

On the other hand I met an adult person who was very proud that he cannot add fractions, he though it was funny. I think it was a shame.



Is there really an intelligent job where people can work without being able to add one half to two thirds?
And if parents find it funny that they cannot do that,
and if there are people who think that there are fields where basic knowlege from school is "insignificant"

how can a school teacher motivate their children to learn it?
My friend had a neighbor who called her one day and asked her if she had a 3/4 measuring cup. My friend said no...but told her just to use a 1/2 cup and a 1/4 instead. The woman said, "Are you SURE???" And she is raising children.
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:09 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,188 posts, read 50,480,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I guess paper routes are a thing of the past. When I was growing up kids could start working at 14, but they couldn't work past 6pm.
My newspaper is delivered by an elderly couple in a car. The paper is always late, and they walk a few steps up the sidewalk and then just wing it, often beheading my flowers.

I won't complain because there is no way these people are doing this except that they desperately needed the money. But I wish kids had paper routes again.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Why not? A child's education is a parents' responsibility, not the government's and not another parents'. If a child shows talent and promise, why not?
If a child's education was 100% a parent's responsibility than there would be no such thing as free public education. Modern societies have needed minimally literate masses until recently. To that extent, it is the government's responsibility to make sure the masses get "educated" to the point where they would be able to occupy the jobs available in society. It is not the government's responsibility to make all children shine, to make them college material and/or future great earners.

The trick is that there are not that many jobs left to be filled in modern societies, hence not that much motivation on the part of society/government to minimally educate everyone anymore. Automation has rendered most human labor obsolete and there is less and less need for mediocre/average Joe workers. There is some true need for highly skilled, "top of the top" specialists to work in cutting-edge fields - but the rest of the masses are highly disposable and easily replaceable.

However, keep in mind that many parents will simply say: if the school won't educate my child, I won't do it either because I simply don't have the time.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:04 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,894,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
If a child's education was 100% a parent's responsibility than there would be no such thing as free public education. Modern societies have needed minimally literate masses until recently. To that extent, it is the government's responsibility to make sure the masses get "educated" to the point where they would be able to occupy the jobs available in society. It is not the government's responsibility to make all children shine, to make them college material and/or future great earners.

The trick is that there are not that many jobs left to be filled in modern societies, hence not that much motivation on the part of society/government to minimally educate everyone anymore. Automation has rendered most human labor obsolete and there is less and less need for mediocre/average Joe workers. There is some true need for highly skilled, "top of the top" specialists to work in cutting-edge fields - but the rest of the masses are highly disposable and easily replaceable.

However, keep in mind that many parents will simply say: if the school won't educate my child, I won't do it either because I simply don't have the time.
It is NOT the government's job to educate children, any more than it is the government's job to save them from bad choices when they become adults. Having cradle-to-grave safety nets have ruined entire generations. There is absolutely no incentive to study, work hard, and become productive. The government will give you free health care, food, housing, even a cell phone!
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:46 PM
 
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The creative impulse, which requires work to fulfill, is inherent to human experience; however, we humans often disagree about what kind of work should be rewarded. When I hear a parent or teacher complain about a child being lazy, it's most likely a mismatch of priorities, not a lack of motivation.

As an example, I have a very good friend whose daughter failed Algebra last year, which was obviously very disappointing to her parents. Her mother expressed her frustration about the daughter's "laziness" shortly after sharing a story about the child, who is a very talented singer, spending several days carefully preparing to audition for a prestigious youth choir. Clearly, this child is not unmotivated; she and her parents simply have different priorities.

So, whose job is it to motivate children? I don't think there's a simple answer to that question, but ultimately I believe motivation comes from the child himself. When they want it, they'll do it.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 09-05-2011 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 09-06-2011, 09:40 AM
 
914 posts, read 1,130,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofsunshine123 View Post
It seems like asian cultures in particular are good at motivating their children to study?? It's always the chinese kids who's homework is being taken and copied from, it's always the indian kid who is the computer "nerd" or the korean kid who is good at science and math...


I'm not asian, but have noticed this at school. They instill in them the importance of scholarship and education, as well as discipline and thrift...


good traint to have, why do u think the asian economies are doing so well now?

where as american kids are lazy, entitled, dim-witted, and think everythink should just be handed to them. and yes, im an ameerican kid.

Well said
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofsunshine123 View Post
It seems like asian cultures in particular are good at motivating their children to study?? It's always the chinese kids who's homework is being taken and copied from, it's always the indian kid who is the computer "nerd" or the korean kid who is good at science and math...


I'm not asian, but have noticed this at school. They instill in them the importance of scholarship and education, as well as discipline and thrift...


good traint to have, why do u think the asian economies are doing so well now?

where as american kids are lazy, entitled, dim-witted, and think everythink should just be handed to them. and yes, im an ameerican kid.
I WISH I had an argument against any of this but I don't. Our kid are entitled and lazy. They do want everything handed to them and this is a big part of the reason industry is leaving our shores. Who would you rather hire? An asian who was raised on discipline and respect or an American kid who was raised on priase, given trophies just for showing up and told how special they are from day one?
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:53 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,668 posts, read 28,551,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
OK. I am all for parental responsibility. I can assure you I am never letting my kids out of sight, educationally speaking.

Now let's imagine every single parent in America would become a tireless Tiger-Mom and Tiger-Dad over night. They would ALL hold their kids to the highest expectations possible and would never let them rest until all kids stepped up.

Do you think the market/society would be able to accommodate all these achievers? Would they all end up in blissful success? Of course not. The competition would just get fiercer, the guys at the top would reap even more amazing rewards than they are already reaping and...you would end up with a lot of janitors with a PhD in their hands.

Beyond personal responsibility, there are immutable socio-economic realities, outside of individual control. The fact that so many people continue to fail to see them...is simply sad.
thats why im against student loans and free college for all. you just end up increasing the education required to flip burgers at mcdonalds. you need all kinds in a society, not everyone can be big pimping like captainnj (kidding).

bad parenting is also a good thing to help separate people into their future positions. single parent homes, lack of importance on education, lack of morality and behavior molding, thats the difference. not what some teacher says when he/she is standing in front of a classroom. a teacher cant motivate a child to achieve anything special.
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