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Old 09-03-2011, 08:53 PM
 
2,596 posts, read 4,642,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
Also, I can't help but think that maybe some teachers are truly dismissive of IEP's and use an "I know better" attitude which is what I kinda sense from you. I could be wrong.

Also, it would seem that not reading the IEP and therefore not implementing the accommodations while the child is in your classroom is a violation of IDEA.
Newsflash: some schools don't even give the teachers their class lists until the day before school starts. Because of this, there's no way for the special ed department to get the lists out to teachers of who even has an IEP, let alone send that IEP. It's not unusual for teachers to not be given all their IEP's and 504's until a week or two into the school year. No, this isn't great, but it's certainly not the teacher's fault. Again, when budgets and staff are cut back to the bones and you've got one special ed manager with a caseload of 50+ kids, you really get what you pay for.

As for the "I know better" attitude, that comes across stronger in your posts than anyone I've seen respond. Everyone I've seen has tried to be kind and helpful to you, even when your wording has been hostile. If you have poor relationships with your child's teachers, I think we can all see why.

 
Old 09-04-2011, 05:58 AM
 
895 posts, read 2,819,906 times
Reputation: 655
Default spec. ed is different

Class lists are in no way a last minutes detail for spec. ed kids There has to be different consideration for these kids and a last minute placement wouldn't be showing very good management.

You really are going overboard to defend bad practices, though.















Quote:
Originally Posted by h886 View Post
Newsflash: some schools don't even give the teachers their class lists until the day before school starts. Because of this, there's no way for the special ed department to get the lists out to teachers of who even has an IEP, let alone send that IEP. It's not unusual for teachers to not be given all their IEP's and 504's until a week or two into the school year. No, this isn't great, but it's certainly not the teacher's fault. Again, when budgets and staff are cut back to the bones and you've got one special ed manager with a caseload of 50+ kids, you really get what you pay for.

As for the "I know better" attitude, that comes across stronger in your posts than anyone I've seen respond. Everyone I've seen has tried to be kind and helpful to you, even when your wording has been hostile. If you have poor relationships with your child's teachers, I think we can all see why.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,717,492 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
Class lists are in no way a last minutes detail for spec. ed kids There has to be different consideration for these kids and a last minute placement wouldn't be showing very good management.

You really are going overboard to defend bad practices, though.
It is what it is. I haven't seen IEP's for my students yet. I'll see them the first week of school. Schedules are still in flux. When they finalize which students I have, they'll send me a list. I'll have to trust the special ed teachers to make sure I know anything I need to know before then.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 07:17 AM
 
2,596 posts, read 4,642,107 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
Class lists are in no way a last minutes detail for spec. ed kids There has to be different consideration for these kids and a last minute placement wouldn't be showing very good management. You really are going overboard to defend bad practices, though.
What a laughable statement. You clearly have no idea how many schools operate. The teachers are often not given class lists until a day or two before school starts. Some years, not until the night before school starts. It's not ideal, it's not good practice, and believe me, it really annoys the teachers.

But then it comes back to the nasty remark you made in your original post, asking if this was a hostile act on the part of the teacher. Again, I think it only speaks to your naivete, but please understand that the teacher has no power in this equation. They want those class lists and they want those IEPs. They want everything early with enough time to plan everything out, but again, this usually isn't what admin gives them. Special ed coordinators are often caught in the middle--trying to juggle too many kids with too little support. Again, we get what we pay for when we up the student:teacher ratio to save money. And while I think admin in most schools have many areas to improve, they get the fuzzy end of the lollipop on this one too. Many parents wait until the last second to register their child for a new school, many schools, particularly in growing or urban areas, have a shifting population, and those class lists have to be reshuffled time and again to balance class sizes, often even after school has started.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,914,204 times
Reputation: 27520
Skatergirl, knowing what you know now from the posts of many teachers, what is stopping you from contacting the teacher(s) yourself to give them a heads up about any special needs of your child before the teachers get their paperwork ?

Teachers have conference times and parents should be proactive. You may only have one child to look after but teachers have 100+ to look after.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:10 AM
 
15,758 posts, read 13,184,034 times
Reputation: 19646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
Just seems backwards to not read an iep first. It's as if you assume you don't need to read it as you can use your own judgement on what to do. How do you know that a child's IEP hasn't' been written well with some great input from evals and docs and professionals in XYZ? Why not assume they will make your job easier in how you interact with a student if you read the IEP?

Also, I can't help but think that maybe some teachers are truly dismissive of IEP's and use an "I know better" attitude which is what I kinda sense from you. I could be wrong.

Also, it would seem that not reading the IEP and therefore not implementing the accommodations while the child is in your classroom is a violation of IDEA.
I am soooo glad I do not have your child in my class.

Children are people first and a diagnosis second. Seems to be based on this entire thread you want people to see your child as a list of problems instead of a unique individual.

Very few teachers spend the first few days teaching material but actually spend the time learning about their students through the use of expectations, discussions and routines. An IEP will not address any of those. An IEP is for INSTRUCTION. There is no violation if there is no instruction.

Jeez, lady its borderline bizarre that you take offense to the idea that someone wants to know your child as a person before knowing his diagnosis. Damn close to baron munchausen-ish.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:11 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,799,189 times
Reputation: 18791
If you were in my school district, the regular ed teacher wouldn't read the IEP at ALL. For purposes of confidentiality, only the special ed staff has access to the complete IEP. Teachers who work with the students receive copies of their accommodations and that's it.

And, since drop/add continues through the first full week of school, acommodations aren't distributed until it's finished because schedules often change during that time.

Of course, as case manager, if there's something that I think a teacher absolutely MUST know the first day of class, I'll seek out him/her and talk privately.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Virginia
7,894 posts, read 12,150,879 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
If you were in my school district, the regular ed teacher wouldn't read the IEP at ALL. For purposes of confidentiality, only the special ed staff has access to the complete IEP. Teachers who work with the students receive copies of their accommodations and that's it.

And, since drop/add continues through the first full week of school, acommodations aren't distributed until it's finished because schedules often change during that time.

Of course, as case manager, if there's something that I think a teacher absolutely MUST know the first day of class, I'll seek out him/her and talk privately.
That's interesting. Our county used to do more of that, but has moved away from it. I understand there were several lawsuits where the teacher wasn't aware of the whole IEP and the parents' won. So, the classroom teacher is now responsible for making those who need to know aware of the whole IEP.

We have a program called GetIEP. As the general ed. teacher, I have to go in and "delegate" a student's IEP to any staff member who needs to see the PDF form of the IEP. This includes the special education teacher, music, art and p.e. teachers. We start school on Tuesday and I can't delegate the new special ed. teacher yet because she isn't listed yet on the drop down menu. I was told it may take a few days to get her into the system. She can see it through SeaStars if she wishes. That's a program they use to write the IEP.

Something I don't like is that I can't choose just one student to delegate. I have 3 IEPs in my class (two speech, one special ed.). I can't just choose the two speech students to the speech teacher, I have to delegate the whole group. So I have to delegate the special ed. IEP to the speech teacher and the speech IEPs to the special ed. teacher even though they don't work with those kids.
 
Old 09-04-2011, 09:08 AM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,469,841 times
Reputation: 25990
As a former SPED teacher, I knew which kids needed immediate attention, if they were mainstreamed, and which teachers needed support. I would go to the school, usually before school started, and definitely within the first two or three days, to touch base. But, let's say, I had on my case load, 10 children totally blind, 15 children totally deaf, and a range of students within, down to a student who had minor speech impediment, and Dyslexia...who do you think is going to get immediate attention the first couple of days of school? The ones with the most severe disabilities. So, I would think, not to discount the parent's concern...but...there are kids in the school who are way more disabled than her child, and those will get taken care of first...the child with Dyslexia, while still important, can probably slide until Friday, or even next week. The kid's who get attention first, are the ones who need the most adaptive equipment, to make sure that is all in place the first week of school. No adaptive equipment needed, might slide to next week..then review the IEP with the teacher, after all, placement might even change the first week, with scheduling...so, a few days is okay

Last edited by jasper12; 09-04-2011 at 09:09 AM.. Reason: edit
 
Old 09-04-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,821 posts, read 39,387,870 times
Reputation: 48621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatergirl View Post
Class lists are in no way a last minutes detail for spec. ed kids There has to be different consideration for these kids and a last minute placement wouldn't be showing very good management.

You really are going overboard to defend bad practices, though.
Again, I work for a private school that is strictly special education. I have no regular ed teachers, only other special education teachers. And because we are in session year-round, we don't have the typical switch from teacher to teacher at the end of the school year/beginning of the next, nor do our IEPs necessarily run from, say, Sept. to Sept. Our transitions are set up differently. So I can't say based on my experiences how IEPs are dispersed through the system and at what rate and on what schedule in the traditional public school...but I do know that in my state, classroom teachers are required to be involved in the actions of the IEP team for every student that they have with an IEP, meaning that they are supposed to be involved in the developing and drafting of the goals along with everyone else...therefore, they don't need to read the completed document at the beginning of the school year to be aware of what it entails, they were involved in the writing of it and have had time to consider what that means for them in terms of planning how they will implement accommodations and modifications. And, yes, this means knowing what kids with IEPs you're getting ahead of time.

That said, mismanagement is rife. My mom has been a special ed para for nearly twenty years (in a state other than the one in which I work). In the twenty years, she, along with the other paras in this particular public district, has never been ALLOWED TO SEE a student she works with's IEP, nor invited to take part in an IEP meeting, although she is the one providing direct instruction for most if not all of the day and the person who would need to be most aware of things like level of functionality, medical concerns, goals and objectives and how progress toward them will be measured, behavioral support plans, etc. The atmosphere in her particular district has been very adversarial for a long time, paras the most ill-used of any I've ever witnessed. She was doing this long before I became a special ed teacher, and I had a clue how bad it was, but I never realized until I was in the game myself just how poorly it's all managed where she is. Very frustrating for all parties involved, and the students are the ones who suffer the most for it.
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