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Old 09-22-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Kailua, Oahu, HI and San Diego, CA
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Posted on the City Data Hawaii Forum:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20936984-post62.html
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:38 PM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,967,405 times
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That is a very solid point of view as far as I am concerned; and just in case Aconite reads (which seems to do consistently ) - do keep in mind that my issues are mostly cohort-related and not America-related.
It is nevertheless true that the wave started in America.

This is really about what we lost when we made some gains with our modern way of life. In the large scheme of things, people's lives DIDN'T get better.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:20 PM
 
907 posts, read 1,318,596 times
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I see the point of her post but there also a lot of things in her post I find unreasonable. To me it seems like she thinks that children that go to public school are severely I'll mannered, disrespectful, non religious in caring individuals which is not true at all. And breast feeding a five year old, sounds a bit invasive and painful!
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Nesconset, NY
2,198 posts, read 3,307,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzii View Post
I see the point of her post but there also a lot of things in her post I find unreasonable. To me it seems like she thinks that children that go to public school are severely I'll mannered, disrespectful, non religious in caring individuals which is not true at all. And breast feeding a five year old, sounds a bit invasive and painful!
Obviously there are always exceptions to everything.

You must agree, however, that parents, not the schools, should be solely responsible for inculcating manners, respect, faith, etc. The schools will do it, too, but they shouldn't have to.

If breast feeding a 5yr old sounds invasive(?) and painful...don't do it.
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:02 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,987,505 times
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I can't wait for the epic seven novel sega or the CD. Oh, the suspense!

I do agree that the schools shouldn't have to, but it is sometimes necessary. As they shouldn't have to give eye sight tests, hearing tests, dental checks, scoliosis (sp?) checks, teach about periods, sex, drugs, hygene, manners, etc.... I always excuse my children from it, as they see my choice of professionals when needed, but it doesn't mean I wish to exclude those children with neglectful parents this resource. Just because you got screwed by a poor parental unit does not mean you don't deserve some guidance elsewhere.
Its the land of opportunity, and like it or not, mandatrory compulsive education levels the playing field somewhat for those pulling the short stick.
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:48 PM
 
Location: State of Grace
1,498 posts, read 1,058,701 times
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Afternoon cc0789!

Quote:
Its the land of opportunity, and like it or not, mandatrory compulsive education levels the playing field somewhat for those pulling the short stick.
Agreed, a thorough, basic education should be compulsory, and testing every few years or so should keep everyone on track. I only take issue with those who wish to legislate all children into public schools, which for the past forty years have had disgraceful success ratios in most places in the western world.

If those who build that 'Level playing field' consider 75% illiteracy amongst high school students satisfactory, I wouldn't care to engage such persons in further debate, as our respective definitions of what constitutes a satisfactory education differ drastically.

I'll never forget the twenty-something-year-old 'kid' who worked behind the ice-cream counter in a Whistler supermarket, and who recently asked me, during a power outage (when her register wasn't working), what 7 x 6 was - and she wasn't kidding! And she isn't a rare breed, unfortunately.

I believe that we owe our children (all children) a better education than is presently being offered by the public school system. YMMV.

Shalom,

Mahrie.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:17 PM
 
Location: California
178 posts, read 283,809 times
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With today's world a lot of mothers are forced to work. When I had my first child I worked at night and my husband during the day. During this time I hated it but looking back it seemed like simpler times. But as adults we are always thrieving for the better life. I applaud the parents who choose homeschooling from the beginning. I think it would be hard for a child to switch to homeschooling after attending public school, unless there was a problem. I just hope they are getting enough social development, because one day they will have to face the social hell our world has turned too.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: State of Grace
1,498 posts, read 1,058,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzii View Post
I see the point of her post but there also a lot of things in her post I find unreasonable. To me it seems like she thinks that children that go to public school are severely I'll mannered, disrespectful, non religious in caring individuals which is not true at all. And breast feeding a five year old, sounds a bit invasive and painful!
Afternoon Jazii!

Not at all, as I've mentioned on other threads, when the topic came up, I attended a public school myself, many years ago, and in Scotland where educational standards were high. Sadly, the same cannot be said for Scotland's educational standards today.

Manners and moral, religious, and ethical values were taught in the home, for the most part, as they are in most homes today, on purpose or otherwise.

However, it has been my observation that most (not all) children today are ill-mannered, disrespectful, irreligious, and apathetic individuals. It varies from place to place, of course, but to find a well-mannered child nowadays is refreshing, and certainly not the norm. How much of this is due to parental neglect in these areas or just the 'Me' generation in general, I don't know, but that which ought to be valued, cherished, and taught to our children is not anymore, and the world is the worse for it.

It doesn't have to be this way, and it is the responsibility of 'We the people' to make positive changes where they are so obviously needed.

Shalom,


Mahrie.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,706 posts, read 2,934,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahrie View Post

However, it has been my observation that most (not all) children today are ill-mannered, disrespectful, irreligious, and apathetic individuals. It varies from place to place, of course, but to find a well-mannered child nowadays is refreshing, and certainly not the norm. How much of this is due to parental neglect in these areas or just the 'Me' generation in general, I don't know, but that which ought to be valued, cherished, and taught to our children is not anymore, and the world is the worse for it.

It doesn't have to be this way, and it is the responsibility of 'We the people' to make positive changes where they are so obviously needed.

Shalom,


Mahrie.
So, you want these people that are neglecting their children's moral upbringing to additionally be in charge of their education?

There are people that are AWESOME homeschooling parents, but many cannot give it the time that it deserves. Homeschooling is not for everyone. But you are right, teachers should not have to teach morals, religion, etc... I wish we didn't have to, but alas it is necessary.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:54 PM
 
Location: State of Grace
1,498 posts, read 1,058,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_hug99 View Post
So, you want these people that are neglecting their children's moral upbringing to additionally be in charge of their education?

Ahoy there, captain!

What I want is irrelevant since parents are 'In charge' of their children's moral, spiritual, and academic education. As for how that obligation should be met, I would not presume to tell anyone how to conduct their personal affairs.

Periodic testing of home schooled children should weed out any neglectful parents.

This discussion began on a lengthy thread in the Hawaiian forum, with parents expressing their dissatisfaction and disgust with the standard of public, and even private education offered in Hawai'i. Others from elsewhere (primarily the U.S.) joined in and were equally disgruntled, and they each blamed their respective state for the situation.

I merely pointed out that children do not belong to the state, any state, and the responsibility for teaching children rests with their parents.

Yes, I am a proponent of home schooling, but I agree that it is not possible for everyone, largely because of the way in which western society is structured. We do not foster multi-generational families and/or an environment that would make home education possible for everyone.

I don't come from a large family myself, but I have several (now grown) home-schooled children of my own, and I've worked with people in different countries and from many cultures for almost four decades, so I believe I'm reasonably qualified to comment on the wisdom of this particular form of education. In a multi-generational family there is a large pool of people and gifts from which to extract what is needed to provide a comprehensive education for any child, even those with so-called 'special needs,' or mentally challenged parents.

My husband and I didn't have the benefit of familial support. In fact, when we home schooled our children, it wasn't considered 'cool' - quite the opposite - but we believed, and still believe that it was the best we could offer our children.

In western society, many parents have formed small neighborhood groups and thus have created the necessary 'pool' of variously gifted adults to meet their children's' comprehensive needs. For some time now, the outstanding performance of home-schooled children has all but silenced naysayers, in that home-schooled kids routinely outperform their publicly and privately 'mass-educated' peers significantly, and on every level.

Do I think that homeschooling is the only way to educate a child? No, but I believe it is by far the best way. Not only do children learn better and more effectively, they learn in a stress-free environment (particularly if the 'Unschooling' method is employed, which is what we ourselves used), and the whole family, or community (if that scenario applies) is strengthened and united by their involvement in the process.

Further, I don't recall hearing of a single home-schooled child who required to ingest Ritalin or any other drug said to be necessary for a ridiculous percentage of public school kids - to enable them to learn.

Our youngest daughter is a private elementary school teacher, as are my husband's two sisters, several of our nieces, and nephews, and a few of my cousins, and I would not hand over the responsibility for the education of my children to any one of them.

Every person on the planet is a teacher, and likewise, we are all students, and we are all both from conception 'til death, and perhaps beyond. I believe that mass education of our children is unnatural and lacking in too many areas to list - but that's me. I have yet to criticize another parent's choice and neither am I likely to. I will, however, always be a strong advocate of home education for the reasons I have mentioned above and many more.

There are people that are AWESOME homeschooling parents, but many cannot give it the time that it deserves. Homeschooling is not for everyone. But you are right, teachers should not have to teach morals, religion, etc... I wish we didn't have to, but alas it is necessary.
It isn't and shouldn't be necessary, captain. You won't be asked to give account for other people's children, but you will be asked to give account for your own.

I had one 'born-to-be' teacher when I was ten years old and attending a public school in Scotland. That some few people are exceptionally gifted in that area is not in question, and I thank God for the gift of them, but they are rare indeed. That said, I carry that man in my heart to this day - he opened up the world to/for me. May God bless all teachers who are teachers for the right reason and not simply for the lengthy holidays and steady paycheck. If you are a 'born-to-be' teacher, captain, then please hang in there, we need you!

Love,

Mahrie.
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