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Old 09-24-2011, 08:48 AM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Convince me that the majority of teens carrying cell phones possess both the maturity level and inclination to responsibly carry a cell phone for emergency contact purposes (e.g. not texting, websurfing, game-playing, facebook checking, YouTube video watching, etc. in class), without it interfering with class in any way.
That isn't the point. The majority of teens do not have the maturity or sense of responsibility to always use the lap tops in my room correctly, without a disruption in my class. But we still us them, and I TEACH them the correct behavior. Its a process with a fairly steep learning curve. It is actually exactly equivalent to using smart phones, ipads or ipods in class.

Quote:
There are workplaces (I work in one) where employees are emphatically NOT to be using their phones for non-work-related purposes except over their lunch breaks. I have seen teachers receive reprimands (and be let go, after repeated reprimands) because they couldn't manage to hold themselves back from texting while they were supposed to be teaching and/or supervising the safety of kids with severe special needs.
So did your job respond with the fact that no one can have their cell phones on them at all? It is VASTLY different to expect someone to not use their phone than to disallow them from having on on their person. Additionally, just as we teacher proper computer etiquette now with the result being young adults are using them more responsibly in the workplace due to prior exposure, it is likely that being taught responsible use of technology, including cell phones, will only decrease thing like you mention above.

Quote:
I do agree that high school students need to learn what is and isn't acceptable and appropriate in the world post-high school, and being glued to your phone for non-emergency and non-work-related reasons while you are ostensibly engaged in work isn't acceptable or appropriate...school should emulate this.

One problem is that many working adults DON'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS EITHER.
But in education we punish the many for the actions of the few while at a job, the person who actually causes the problem faces the consequences. How is it a negative to actually teach children what is and is not acceptable cell phone behavior?

Additionally, I NEVER stated children would or should be allowed to use their phones as they see fit in a classroom. What I did say, and continue to support, is that saying cell phones and ipods should be prohibited from schools, and classrooms is setting children up to break rules. My students are still asking me everyday at the end of class if they can use their phones to record their homework because the expectation is that they will not use their phones in class EVER without permission. With the exception of ONE single incident, the new policy has been a rousing success.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:01 AM
 
27,993 posts, read 19,641,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
It is silly to expect high school students to leave phones and ipods in their lockers for the entire day.

We have recently reevaluated our policy on phones and ipods and I am very happy with it. Any unauthorized use during class and they are gone, second time for the rest of the year.

Ignoring technology is not an option. Learning how to use it responsibly is the best option.

I know I use my phone's calendar for all of my reminders and due dates and I encourage my students to do the same. The list of potential positives for technology make it reasonable to invest the time to learn to use them correctly. No different than using computers or the internet in my opinion.
I agree with this. I think students should be allowed to have and use their cell phones, ipods, tablets, etc during their time - lunch/recess/breaks.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
That isn't the point. The majority of teens do not have the maturity or sense of responsibility to always use the lap tops in my room correctly, without a disruption in my class. But we still us them, and I TEACH them the correct behavior. Its a process with a fairly steep learning curve. It is actually exactly equivalent to using smart phones, ipads or ipods in class.
It IS the point. There is much to teach, already, without having to take valuable instructional time teaching young adults basic etiquette and manners (which they already know, but simply choose not to employ in this context, probably because the adults around them likely don't, either), and that they are wasting your time and theirs by messing around unnecessarily on electronic gadgetry rather than using it for the academic purposes intended.

There are plenty of AMAZING tools that can be used for teaching, electronic and otherwise...but they're not all appropriate for use if the students themselves CAN'T HANDLE USING THEM APPROPRIATELY. Gotta know your audience.



Quote:
So did your job respond with the fact that no one can have their cell phones on them at all?
You can have it on you, but nobody better see it (which generally would defeat the purpose of having it on you). Personally, mine stays in my car...along with the peanut trail mix that's not school-appropriate, either. Access to both before and after school, and at lunch if needed, is all that's necessary, for me.

Quote:
But in education we punish the many for the actions of the few while at a job, the person who actually causes the problem faces the consequences. How is it a negative to actually teach children what is and is not acceptable cell phone behavior?
I don't know...I've personally experienced many group contingencies in various workplaces and in the world as a whole. I definitely wouldn't say that many being affected by actions of few is a phenomenon limited to elementary and high school. Your actions DO affect others, and policies and procedures get changed all the time by the actions of a minority. It's life.

Quote:
Additionally, I NEVER stated children would or should be allowed to use their phones as they see fit in a classroom. What I did say, and continue to support, is that saying cell phones and ipods should be prohibited from schools, and classrooms is setting children up to break rules.
The argument that MAKING RULES sets students up to break them could be used to argue the need for just about any rule, no?
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 8,245,548 times
Reputation: 4867
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Convince me that the majority of teens carrying cell phones possess both the maturity level and inclination to responsibly carry a cell phone for emergency contact purposes (e.g. not texting, websurfing, game-playing, facebook checking, YouTube video watching, etc. in class), without it interfering with class in any way.

There are workplaces (I work in one) where employees are emphatically NOT to be using their phones for non-work-related purposes except over their lunch breaks. I have seen teachers receive reprimands (and be let go, after repeated reprimands) because they couldn't manage to hold themselves back from texting while they were supposed to be teaching and/or supervising the safety of kids with severe special needs.

I do agree that high school students need to learn what is and isn't acceptable and appropriate in the world post-high school, and being glued to your phone for non-emergency and non-work-related reasons while you are ostensibly engaged in work isn't acceptable or appropriate...school should emulate this.

One problem is that many working adults DON'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS EITHER.
+1000

Even one of my fitness instructors has a rule against cell phones in our spinning class b/c so many people just can't leave them alone, and it is dangerous and detracts from the class, which is supposed to be a group activity; she said that one woman got stuck on her bike b/c she was grabbing for her cell while cycling and had to be pried off by the maintenance staff. The class had to be stopped simply b/c this person could not put her cell down for 50 minutes. I've also seen a college professor take a student's cell away b/c the student could not stop texting during class; it was an ongoing problem with the student, who was obsessively texting in every class.

It is almost impossible for someone--especially teenagers--to participate in class while focusing on a cell phone. To incorporate them into lessons might be "realistic," but it also encourages its usage, with which I do not agree. People have become way too dependent on technology; there is no reason to use a cell when one can use a day planner--or an alarm clock, or a home phone--especially when the latter are much safer, less expensive and do not cause nearlyas many problems as cell phones do.

Last edited by StarlaJane; 09-24-2011 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 8,245,548 times
Reputation: 4867
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
It IS the point. There is much to teach, already, without having to take valuable instructional time teaching young adults basic etiquette and manners (which they already know, but simply choose not to employ in this context, probably because the adults around them likely don't, either), and that they are wasting your time and theirs by messing around unnecessarily on electronic gadgetry rather than using it for the academic purposes intended.

There are plenty of AMAZING tools that can be used for teaching, electronic and otherwise...but they're not all appropriate for use if the students themselves CAN'T HANDLE USING THEM APPROPRIATELY. Gotta know your audience.





You can have it on you, but nobody better see it (which generally would defeat the purpose of having it on you). Personally, mine stays in my car...along with the peanut trail mix that's not school-appropriate, either. Access to both before and after school, and at lunch if needed, is all that's necessary, for me.



I don't know...I've personally experienced many group contingencies in various workplaces and in the world as a whole. I definitely wouldn't say that many being affected by actions of few is a phenomenon limited to elementary and high school. Your actions DO affect others, and policies and procedures get changed all the time by the actions of a minority. It's life.



The argument that MAKING RULES sets students up to break them could be used to argue the need for just about any rule, no?
If only I could rep you again!
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:26 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,354,094 times
Reputation: 10471
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Convince me that the majority of teens carrying cell phones possess both the maturity level and inclination to responsibly carry a cell phone for emergency contact purposes (e.g. not texting, websurfing, game-playing, facebook checking, YouTube video watching, etc. in class), without it interfering with class in any way.

There are workplaces (I work in one) where employees are emphatically NOT to be using their phones for non-work-related purposes except over their lunch breaks. I have seen teachers receive reprimands (and be let go, after repeated reprimands) because they couldn't manage to hold themselves back from texting while they were supposed to be teaching and/or supervising the safety of kids with severe special needs.

I do agree that high school students need to learn what is and isn't acceptable and appropriate in the world post-high school, and being glued to your phone for non-emergency and non-work-related reasons while you are ostensibly engaged in work isn't acceptable or appropriate...school should emulate this.

One problem is that many working adults DON'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS EITHER.
The teachers at our high school report that for the most part they do not have issues with kids using cell phones when they are not supposed to because the school is reasonable in their expectations. Cell phones are here to stay, period. Get used to it. Banning people completely from using them is only going to make YOUR job harder because you have to reinforce a rule that is going to be broken.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:36 AM
 
3,084 posts, read 6,463,911 times
Reputation: 4430
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Convince me that the majority of teens carrying cell phones possess both the maturity level and inclination to responsibly carry a cell phone for emergency contact purposes (e.g. not texting, websurfing, game-playing, facebook checking, YouTube video watching, etc. in class), without it interfering with class in any way.

There are workplaces (I work in one) where employees are emphatically NOT to be using their phones for non-work-related purposes except over their lunch breaks. I have seen teachers receive reprimands (and be let go, after repeated reprimands) because they couldn't manage to hold themselves back from texting while they were supposed to be teaching and/or supervising the safety of kids with severe special needs.

I do agree that high school students need to learn what is and isn't acceptable and appropriate in the world post-high school, and being glued to your phone for non-emergency and non-work-related reasons while you are ostensibly engaged in work isn't acceptable or appropriate...school should emulate this.

One problem is that many working adults DON'T SEEM TO GRASP THIS EITHER.
My daughter who teaches high school math and has at least 150 students says for this 5 weeks of class so far she has had to reprimand one student for unauthorized use of cell phones. When the policy was against them it was 2-3 in each class each day.

I'd say that shows a vast change in just incorporating them into the school instead of trying to ban them.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Fairfield, CT
5,528 posts, read 8,184,647 times
Reputation: 5765
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALonelyMan View Post
At the beginning of the class and put sticky notes on them with the students' name on it so they will know who they belong to in order to know that the students are not texting or listening to ipod in class behind the teachers' back and will probably pay more attention in class w/o their cell phones,ipods,etc. And then the teachers would give them back to the students at the end of class. Should teachers be allowed to do this?
Of course. Why not?
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:47 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypocore View Post
My daughter who teaches high school math and has at least 150 students says for this 5 weeks of class so far she has had to reprimand one student for unauthorized use of cell phones. When the policy was against them it was 2-3 in each class each day.

I'd say that shows a vast change in just incorporating them into the school instead of trying to ban them.
This has been my exact experience.

That is also why I find it ironic that people who have no experience with having a more realistic cell phone policy are telling me how much MORE time it will take away from my class, when it is actually taking LESS.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:16 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,224,691 times
Reputation: 8261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess72 View Post
It is sad that teachers have to tolerate babysitting cellphones or ipods. My daughters school has a no cellphone use rule until school is over. If a phone is seen it is taken away and they don't get it back until the end of the school year. They make the parents and the students sign a contract.

So to answer the question THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TOO
Absolutely, and I'm so damn tired of all the whining about the need to communicate. How have kids survived going to school without cell phones for generations? Just fine, thank you, and unlike today they actually learned something.
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