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Just saying alot of HS graduates could use it more then say Trig. I agree Trig is an improtant class, and great to have. But used less by the average person then basic accounting.
And trig is an ELECTIVE. Why can't this be an elective? If you need it take it, if not don't.
Why does EVERYONE have to take a class when its obvious not everyone need it.
And trig is an ELECTIVE. Why can't this be an elective? If you need it take it, if not don't.
Why does EVERYONE have to take a class when its obvious not everyone need it.
Ok, not required. Its not like college bound students aren't one of the biggest groups preyed upon by credit card companies, and get into financial trouble before they even start their careers.
Ok, not required. Its not like college bound students aren't one of the biggest groups preyed upon by credit card companies, and get into financial trouble before they even start their careers.
Good point!
If it is not a required course, basic personal finance should be covered in Math courses & resume & cover letter writing should be covered in English courses.
Ikb - there are currently, "required" curriculum that could be considered a waste of time... like some that is mistaught in His-story classes.
I still think, one way or the other, ALL students would benefit from career exploration & job application processes.
Sorry, but the majority of my students go on to science or engineering. Taking away one of their science or engineering course to make room for a silly basic skills requirement class is penalizing them
You believe that future scientists and engineers don't benefit from learning how to budget, write a cover letter, fill out a job or apartment application, a loan application, or understand what goes into a credit report (and why it's important) etc?
I know plenty of engineers and scientists. And I know more than a few that could have benefited from that information early on. Many companies do credit reports as part of the hiring process. Some engineering/research jobs may require a security clearance. Bad credit can keep you from a job you might be very good at.
I find the disdain here for teaching basic skills to "gifted" or "serious" students interesting. No matter how gifted or advanced a student might be, they still have to live in the real world. Their bills still come due like everyone else.
I cannot see spending a semester at the taxpayer's expense learning this stuff. No one is born knowing it, but people learn these things from their families and from trial and error.
One of my concerns is about whose values would be taught in such a course. Some people believe that the principle that you have to have credit to get credit means you should buy everything on credit and rack up a lot of CC debt. Some people believe that it's fine to overextend oneself b/c you'll pay back the money with "cheaper dollars". Some people think renting is "throwing money down the drain" and you should buy a house ASAP, overextending yourself if necessary. Some people lease cars rather than buy them. These are not theories to which I ascribe, and I would not want them being taught to my kids.
I also think that most of this stuff will go in one ear and out the other as the student likely will not be using it for years to come. Most jobs teen apply for do not require resumes, or even applications sometimes.
I wouldn't have needed this kind of course in high school. I graduated and went straight to college (which was the norm, at my school). My college had a great financial aid office and offered support to students who needed help figuring out the best financial plan for them in college. My specific college within my university had a recruiting office to help students get jobs and internships. Advisors could work with you to determine the best offers and all kinds of workshops from resume building to interview skills. I would NEVER have paid attention to this kind of info in HS as it was not relevant. Of course not everyone went to college so the support for those students might have been needed. I would like to think my college is the norm- the resources are out there, if you chose to utilize them.
I had a great economics teacher, and went over basic investment, and the need for taking advantage of a 401k.
I currently have a 401k as big as coworkers 10 years older then me. We were all sitting around talking about 401ks, and this little calculator that tells you how your retirement will be "as is" They all had red lights and I had a green light, even though we were all within about $5k of each other.
I knew and understood from a young age the importance, so I started saving from 20 years old on.
I cannot see spending a semester at the taxpayer's expense learning this stuff. No one is born knowing it, but people learn these things from their families and from trial and error.
Oh I don't know...as a taxpayer, I'd rather pay for that than bailing out 20 somethings who file for bankruptcy because they didn't get it....We pay one way or another. In the end it's generally cheaper to pay for prevention.
You believe that future scientists and engineers don't benefit from learning how to budget, write a cover letter, fill out a job or apartment application, a loan application, or understand what goes into a credit report (and why it's important) etc?
I'm sorry but to claim that they need an entire course to figure out what would take them a couple of hours on the internet is silly. Cover letter takes what? 15 minutes to figure out what they need. And if you think college prep kids cannot fill out a job application then you have not looked at college applications. None of those "skills" could fill up a marking period for most kids let alone an entire year.
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I know plenty of engineers and scientists. And I know more than a few that could have benefited from that information early on. Many companies do credit reports as part of the hiring process. Some engineering/research jobs may require a security clearance. Bad credit can keep you from a job you might be very good at.
OMG are you serious? You are saying that scientists and engineers, or basically any one with a degree, people who will get 6+ years of college or grad school, before applying for jobs in those fields will be held back from those jobs by the lack of a high school basic skills course? Look I agree some people truly need a course like that. To claim that ALL people MUST have it is ridiculous.
I probably know far more scientist than you do. They all knew how to fill out a job application, apartment application, etc by the time they got out of college. As far as credit scores go, I know accountants who have bad credit scores. The issue with credit scores in this country has almost nothing to do with education and everything to do with personal choices.
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I find the disdain here for teaching basic skills to "gifted" or "serious" students interesting. No matter how gifted or advanced a student might be, they still have to live in the real world. Their bills still come due like everyone else.
And we do not know how to pay them? Bill comes in mail, write check, place in envelope, use a stamp, mail. You are advocating a course that is literally common knowledge for MANY people, that is the opposite of a REQUIRED course.
Making average or above average students take basic skills courses is as unfair as making below average students take AP courses.
Want to take children who are eager to learn and turn them into bored, disengaged, disenfranchised teenagers? REQUIRE them to take courses which are boring and assume they are dumb. Seriously, if I had to take a course explaining how to fill out a job application I think I would have quit school. Can you imagine? "Hey kids see where it says first name? Print your first name. See where it asks for your phone number?....."
The last thing we need is to make school even more "one size fits all". What is wrong with making a course like this an ELECTIVE? And kids who do not need it, do not have to take it?
I'm sorry but to claim that they need an entire course to figure out what would take them a couple of hours on the internet is silly. Cover letter takes what? 15 minutes to figure out what they need. And if you think college prep kids cannot fill out a job application then you have not looked at college applications. None of those "skills" could fill up a marking period for most kids let alone an entire year.
OMG are you serious? You are saying that scientists and engineers, or basically any one with a degree, people who will get 6+ years of college or grad school, before applying for jobs in those fields will be held back from those jobs by the lack of a high school basic skills course? Look I agree some people truly need a course like that. To claim that ALL people MUST have it is ridiculous.
I probably know far more scientist than you do. They all knew how to fill out a job application, apartment application, etc by the time they got out of college. As far as credit scores go, I know accountants who have bad credit scores. The issue with credit scores in this country has almost nothing to do with education and everything to do with personal choices.
And we do not know how to pay them? Bill comes in mail, write check, place in envelope, use a stamp, mail. You are advocating a course that is literally common knowledge for MANY people, that is the opposite of a REQUIRED course.
Making average or above average students take basic skills courses is as unfair as making below average students take AP courses.
Want to take children who are eager to learn and turn them into bored, disengaged, disenfranchised teenagers? REQUIRE them to take courses which are boring and assume they are dumb. Seriously, if I had to take a course explaining how to fill out a job application I think I would have quit school. Can you imagine? "Hey kids see where it says first name? Print your first name. See where it asks for your phone number?....."
The last thing we need is to make school even more "one size fits all". What is wrong with making a course like this an ELECTIVE? And kids who do not need it, do not have to take it?
You have no idea what I do or how many engineers or scientist I know or work with. Interesting that you would just assume you know more. And yes, bad credit etc does have a lot to do with personal choices...and personal choices can be influenced by.....EDUCATION! Funny how that works....same as with teaching health or anything else. Education is a wonderful thing....Just because people are intelligent, does not mean they have common sense or truly understand that paying bills late can have implications to their employment. There are those who feel that they are so busy doing "important" things that the bills can wait. That's great that you haven't seen it. You are in a different position that I am. I have seen it.
Last edited by maciesmom; 10-14-2011 at 08:59 PM..
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And yes, bad credit etc does have a lot to do with personal choices...and personal choices can be influenced by.....EDUCATION! Funny how that works....same as with teaching health or anything else. Education is a wonderful thing....Just because people are intelligent, does not mean they have common sense or truly understand that paying bills late can have implications to their employment. There are those who feel that they are so busy doing "important" things that the bills can wait. That's great that you haven't seen it. You are in a different position that I am. I have seen it.
