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Old 08-21-2007, 08:35 AM
 
Location: VA
786 posts, read 4,291,422 times
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Please note that this thread was started in 2007I work part time for a surburban School District. Every year we go to big meeting of teachers and the Superintent of Schools will tell all of us that he is working at eliminating the educational achievement gap between White/Asian Students and those from Black and Hispanic accestory.

He also says he will eliminate the achievement gap between people who grew up in weathy families and disadvantaged backgrounds. All of us roll our eyes and know he is just blowing out smoke and is speaking in politically correct language. Because Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be poor and come from families who are not as involved in the education of its kids, it seems like an impossible task.

His goal is impossible, isn't it?

Last edited by toobusytoday; Yesterday at 08:20 PM..
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:45 AM
 
575 posts, read 2,849,931 times
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Most likeley not entirely and not for a while. It comes down to social pressures, culture, and the family background which are ususally different within ethnic groups. and the NCLB law only exacerbates the problem by only pinning the "problem" on schools.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:55 AM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,813,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
I work part time for a surburban School District. Every year we go to big meeting of teachers and the Superintent of Schools will tell all of us that he is working at eliminating the educational achievement gap between White/Asian Students and those from Black and Hispanic accestory.

He also says he will eliminate the achievement gap between people who grew up in weathy families and disadvantaged backgrounds. All of us roll our eyes and know he is just blowing out smoke and is speaking in politically correct language. His goal is impossible, isn't it?
I think the issue is less about of the color of skin than it is about the color of money. In short, I have hopes for the first concern (eliminating the achievement gap between w/asian and b/hisp students) and no hopes for the second (eliminating the achievement gap between children of wealth and children of poverty).
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:51 AM
 
4,735 posts, read 11,841,569 times
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Quote:
Will America ever be able to eliminate the EDUCATIONAL achievement gap between Whites/Asians and Blacks/Hispanics?
No. If you investigate the gap and the geographic areas where it is the largest...I don't see any chance elimination.
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:01 PM
 
2,518 posts, read 7,676,180 times
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not until educators are able to be honest about why those gaps exist. this is a good place to start, with regard to black students:

Amazon.com: Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America: Books: John McWhorter
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Old 08-21-2007, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Tuxedo Park, NY
419 posts, read 2,049,505 times
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Hmm...I would actually say that these gaps are becomming larger, so I'm not really sure what his plan is to eliminate these gaps but it will surely take some time regardless. The racial gap is the only one that may not be impossible, but as I stated, it will take ages for this to happen. As for the socioeconomic group gaps, these will virtually never be eliminated as it's quite obvious the rich are still getting richer.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:38 PM
Status: "VA is renting me on an extension." (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Arlington, VA and Washington, DC
23,362 posts, read 32,948,932 times
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i think it will be more of a money issue than a race issue. i think that the race gap will shrink largely in my lifetime (i'm 19 btw) but i think the money gap will grow.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,388,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
I work part time for a surburban School District. Every year we go to big meeting of teachers and the Superintent of Schools will tell all of us that he is working at eliminating the educational achievement gap between White/Asian Students and those from Black and Hispanic accestory.

He also says he will eliminate the achievement gap between people who grew up in weathy families and disadvantaged backgrounds. All of us roll our eyes and know he is just blowing out smoke and is speaking in politically correct language. Because Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be poor and come from families who are not as involved in the education of its kids, it seems like an impossible task.

His goal is impossible, isn't it?
it wont happen untill we stop treating people like they need special attention because of the color of there skin. Anyone is capable of achiving what they want to. If you say "you need to teach the class in spanish, and english" you are giving the student that speaks spanish a crutch, keeping them from learning the language of the country, and thus forcing them back.
When you give someone something, they will not give it the same importance as if they were to work extremly hard to get the goal themselves

sorry if this might not make sense, 12 hour day at work and a hard to deal with client, has made my thinking a bit um... random.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 13,393,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
it wont happen untill we stop treating people like they need special attention because of the color of there skin. Anyone is capable of achiving what they want to. If you say "you need to teach the class in spanish, and english" you are giving the student that speaks spanish a crutch, keeping them from learning the language of the country, and thus forcing them back.
When you give someone something, they will not give it the same importance as if they were to work extremly hard to get the goal themselves

sorry if this might not make sense, 12 hour day at work and a hard to deal with client, has made my thinking a bit um... random.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. Instead of giving people the automatic "you're black, you're underprivileged. Here's an extra helping hand for you," America needs to say "you're an individual, you have opportunities. Have fun."

Everybody has equal access to K-12 courtesy of tax dollars (and lottery in some states). Also, in MOST (I don't know if all...) schools, there is internet available. So if the school doesn't have the learning materials right for you, learn it on your own via the Internet. Google is your best friend.

If two kids go to the SAME school and come from the same neighborhood, why should one be treated differently than the other? They both have the opportunity to learn.

As for teaching classes in dual languages, people need to learn the un-official tongue of the land. If they can't, then they shouldn't be in our school system wasting time and money. Trust me, if you put them in a normal class from Day 1 of 1st Grade... they'll be young enough to pick up American-English quite easily. By time they reach middle and high school, they should be pretty fluent in American-English.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Burlington, VT
483 posts, read 1,770,580 times
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The learning gap is a cultural thing. Some families simply don't value education. I'm Black, and my family is full of educated people. I'm the only one of my siblings without an advanced degree.

Back in the day, Black schools were incredibly bad (many still are), but people still tried to learn as much as they could.

I'm also a huge fan of John McWhorter.

As for teaching classes in dual languages, people need to learn the un-official tongue of the land. If they can't, then they shouldn't be in our school system wasting time and money. Trust me, if you put them in a normal class from Day 1 of 1st Grade... they'll be young enough to pick up American-English quite easily. By time they reach middle and high school, they should be pretty fluent in American-English.

A school district near me with a large Spanish-speaking population paired up kids who don't speak much English with kids who do. The "language buddies" help each other out in class. It has worked well so far.

I'm actually in favor of dual-language immersion. Teach all the kids in Spanish and English. In many countries, people speak 3 languages or more, so why can't American kids learn 2?
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