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Old 10-04-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,633,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
I do believe my earlier point has been made with the attitude of your post-It takes a truly "outstanding" person to have an attitude like that.
I'm not sure if you were complimenting me or not, lol.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
714 posts, read 1,340,681 times
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My high school was sort of like that when I was in school. Our school had the IB (International Baccalaureate) program, and they got to choose all of their classes before everyone else, had chances to participate in their own events, and most had the highest GPAs in school.

Elementary and middle school was different. They get a lot of opportunities if you are in the gifted program that other students do not. SAIL students get to go to Camp Greenville for a three day field trip, at least when I was in elementary school, got to leave campus every SAIL class to go to another school, and several other perks.

Middle school gifted students got to be in Honors classes, went on a field trip to a barrier island, and you had the AR and gift-wrapping goals that helped get you pizza parties and other free perks.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:51 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Well, ain't I feeling ancient because 40 years ago students who won a national academic competition got (as their reward) the satisfaction of knowing they won and something to put down on their college applications. (And maybe their teacher would bring donuts to class.)
The stakes are higher now. I am not saying that winning shouldn't be its own reward but I was in a G/T program and did competitions. The kids on our team spend hours and hours a week on this stuff. There is nothing wrong with tangible rewards that go along with the intangible ones as well.

And, FYI all the seniors on the team already have their college acceptances done so there is benefit to them in that way.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:52 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Have we once again forgotten that these kids are in elementary school?
I think the OP was an example of poor judgment exercised in an attempt to motivate children.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:47 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,356,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
The stakes are higher now. I am not saying that winning shouldn't be its own reward but I was in a G/T program and did competitions. The kids on our team spend hours and hours a week on this stuff. There is nothing wrong with tangible rewards that go along with the intangible ones as well.
What are the stakes? (Not being snarky, trying to learn.) I can assure you that the kids 40 years ago spent hours and hours a week on it as well.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:11 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,509,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I think the OP was an example of poor judgment exercised in an attempt to motivate children.
I'm just stymied as to what they thought they were motivating the children to do. If it was to work hard, then this isn't really about giftedness at all.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,165,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
There was an op-ed piece in the Atlanta newspaper today (unfortunately I can't find it online to link to it). A mom wrote about the Atlanta Public Schools' Challenge Program for the Gifted and Talented. They will be taking a field trip to Disney World for several days. One of her kids in the program; the other is not. The son who is not in the gifted program has supposedly been traumatized by his lack of inclusion in this. He now hates school, is afraid to do his homework because he may make a mistake, and cries constantly. This paragraph blew me away:

Get Schooled | ajc.com



So---is she saying that 60+% percent of kids in her son's class are in the gifted and talented program? Can there be a majority who are gifted/talented? By definition, wouldn't they be in the minority? She later goes on to talk about a Duke University research project where every child was treated as gifted and the result was 20% of the kids eventually designated as being gifted as opposed to the control group of 10%.

And would a child really be so traumatized by his brother getting a special treat? Isn't it good for kids to learn that rewards/resources aren't infinite and that not everyone gets everything s/he wants? If kids aren't "sorted," then should every/any kid get a scholarship even if they have poor grades/scores, etc.?

I will agree with the author that the trip to Disney World is an unnecessary use of taxpayers' money (the kids have to pay for the trip, but the teachers will be getting their salaries) and that the "cast members" of the theme park shouldn't be more capable of teaching rigorous content than the teachers.

What do y'all think?
1. If 60% of the kids are in the gifted program, I can't say it's doing much good for the kids who most need it.
2. I think a field trip to Disney is absurd, on about seventeen different levels.
3. If it caused that much strife and commotion in my house, I wouldn't let either kid go. Because, after all, #2.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
The actual G/T percentage in schools is 5% or lower. Why can't schools go back to emphasizing on the entire student body and not just the few who they feel are entitled? The way I look at it, EVERY CHILD, EVERY SINGLE CHILD is gifted in one way or another. Those who say the "truly" gifted students deserve anything more than any other child are fooling themselves. Aside from the fact that those people are the one's who segregate children into groups, they are the one's making the 95% of those not gifted feel like they have no reason to achieve higher goals. As parents, educators and community members, it is our duty to ensure that EVERY child be made to feel that they are important and that they make a difference. If we all did that, there would be less kids feeling like they don't even need to try.
I don't think they deserve more. I do believe they deserve different. And none of them "deserve" Disney World.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Gifted students ARE entitled to a free and appropriate education, just like everyone else. A child with an IQ of 130 is just as different from the average child as a child with a 70 IQ. If we are providing a specialized education for the 70 IQ child we need to provide a specialized education for the child with an IQ of 130.

Kids who are gifted are profoundly different from average children. NOT being gifted doesn't mean a person is stupid.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmiley06 View Post
Gifted, that's funny. Yea I knew alot of supposedly gifted students in graduate school and boy did fail miserably. Gifted is a relative term.
My eldest had a nickname in college. Same one she had in high school: "Curve Killer."

Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Truly. My most recent run-in with a "gifted" student involved an eight-year-old telling several of his peers that he shouldn't have to do his school work because he was smarter than them. I hope I'm around to witness his "Come to Jesus moment" because it's going to be a doozie!
Nobody said gifted children were incapable of being jerks. But yukking it up about "oh, boy, those gifted kids are just spoilt smarta**es", which is par for most threads on C-D, kind of misses the point.

Personally, I hate the term altogether. But it doesn't change the fact that some kids are honestly exceptionally bright. Young Miss Aconite was reading Sylvia Plath and writing her own angst poetry at six. The first grade volunteers wouldn't work with her, according to the teacher, because her vocabulary was larger than theirs and it creeped them out. When other little girls said they wanted to be a Princess when they grew up, she wanted to be a vulcanologist. She would get into long-winded discussions of the merits of Pluto's planetary status (or lack thereof) with the museum docents. Whenever somebody would ask "where did that kid come from?!" I knew it was my daughter they were talking about.
Her brother, otoh, could pass. Sort of. He was pretty normal-acting most of the time. Loved Pokemon and Harry Potter and green army men. Of course, he was also fond of explaining why 2+3 could equal six, or possibly one, and inventing elaborate secret codes centered on base five math (in which he persisted in counting via Cornish sheep-herding jargon), and hated Spiderman and Superman because they were probably biohazardous. But aside from that, he could pass.

You can put kids like these in a class full of kids learning the fine points of Dick & Jane and 2+2=4, but it's a recipe for disaster.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,165,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
No, what we want is to see that all kids have the opportunity to tackle the difficult material set aside for the "gifted" because there is great educational value in trying and failing. And frankly it frosts my ass when educators determine a kid's academic future based on the dubious results of an IQ test given in the first couple of years of elementary school. I'd also like to see parents who live vicariously through their children's academic successes come to grips with the fact that most of their precious off-spring are not truly gifted, rather simply the beneficiaries of their parents' socio-economic status and political clout.
Our school system does that. They take the kids they deem likely to be lost in the middle and put them into advanced classes to challenge them. Only problem is it's beyond most, and "advanced" has become dumbed down to the point of uselessness as a result. Meantime, the kids who really should be in advanced classes sit there, bored out of their skulls.
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