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Old 10-03-2011, 09:23 PM
 
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Personally, I think "gifted" children are the ones least in need of that particular trip. If the choice were mine I'd load up a couple of buses with underachieving children, walk them around Disneyworld for a day, put 'em on a few rides, talk to them about Walt Disney and his dreams, tell them about the Imagineers who built the park and send them home with the desire to work harder in school and do something important with their lives.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Complete and total agreement. This stood out the most to me: Disney and GT? Seriously? If you were that gifted, you should be exposed to completely different media and environments, not Disney.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
This deserves it's own thread.

I could write pages on this subject.
Here is the paramount part of that article:

<<But research generally shows that it is precisely those enrichments that produce better results rather than the fact that they are accorded only to a select few. What happens in those classes is more decisive than the fact that they are homogeneous. So if parents of those students were concerned about the quality of learning, they would have no reason to object to extending those benefits to everyone.>>

I cannot put it in words how offensive and distasteful the entire American "G/T"/tracking practice looks from where I stand; and again, I stand in the shoes of a foreign-bored person with a ton of perspective: cross-cultural experience, got to live under the two big modern economic systems (socialism and capitalism), have seen collectivism and individualism at work, have seen and lived it all, with the goods and the bads, I feel 100 yo.

Through all this, I still find the whole idea of exposing some children to a certain type of curriculum - quite basic and unsophisticated overall - and a genetically or socio-economically elite group (and we all know it's more the latter than the former) to a clearly more sophisticated and enriching curriculum...I find this practice to be just plain wrong and indecent, let alone un-democratic.

Yes, kids are different and yes, they are born with varying IQ-s, gifts, propensities, what have you. So what? What's it to you, public school system?

Why don't you just forget about those "gifts" and simply mind your own business which would be that of teaching academics, assessing learning outcomes and leaving the "weeding out" process to the market?

Your one and only duty is to expose EVERYBODY considered functional in a regular class to the ENTIRE range of curriculum difficulty, from the most basic to the super-advanced. Once you've done that, let the genetics or the hard-work or even the class privileges and whatever other forces at play, speak for themselves.

YOU do not get to decide who is going to be exposed to what. The only thing you get to do is to evaluate the learning outcomes and academic performance of every child AFTER you have exposed everyone to the entire range of difficulty. That should be so democratic of you!

Under the "tracking" model, the public school system does nothing but deprive everyone who fails to show proof of membership to an "elite club" from the start, of the chance to a high quality education. This is the only thing I see at work here.

Growing up I have seen a couple of astonishingly gifted children (worlds away from the "dime a dozen" types that America seems to be so enamored with) doing just beautifully in a regular class - simply because the entire regular class was exposed to materials ranging from absolutely basic to extremely difficult. The overwhelming majority of children never performed well on the extremely difficult parts - but they had the opportunity to try, along with the gifted. The truly gifted amazed everyone with their performance, but the others too learned valuable lessons even if the performance was never stellar.

So why can't average Johnny be taught the basics AS WELL as the fancy-schmency academic lesson "du jour"? Sure, chances are he will not perform as greatly on that part as the "elite" kid with Cogat scores through the roof. But you'd better be sure he can walk away with something. You may also want to be sure of the fact that many average Johnnies with quite a bit of ambition and less-than-impressive IQ scores could work a lot to elevate themselves to that level of difficulty and do decently well on the GT part of the curriculum. Who are you to tell him that he shouldn't be exposed to that kind of material simply because he didn't score high enough to make it in the "club"?

The only reason has to do with money and the highly wasteful approach to education practiced in the US. It has nothing to do with average Johnny's IQ not being able to handle a more sophisticated discussion about Bartholomew and the Oobleck (sample of GT curriculum I have seen); let alone a trip to Disney.

Shameless.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:31 PM
 
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The gifted kids go to Disney, that sucks if you are not gifted.
The football players win the season and they get a trip to the playoffs, that sucks if you are not on the football team.
The French club goes to France, that sucks if you are not in French club.
The low income 4 yr olds get to go to preschool in the PS. The other 4yr olds have to stay home because they live in the middle of nowhere and there isn't any other private preschools around. That sucks for them.
A gifted kid in 7th grade has to read books at a 9th grade level when he is WAY above that and board to death. That sucks that he has to go to school everyday knowing he will not be challenged.
The kid with an IQ of 65 gets a 1 on 1 teacher and the kid with an IQ of 135 get to read a book 2 yrs ahead of his grade or gets to do an extra art project with his book report.

Life is not fair.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
In life there are winners and there are losers best kids learn these lessons early on before they head into adulthood with unrealistic expectations.
Yes, absolutely.

And how about being fair-play and giving them at least the chance to lose and come to terms with their "loser" identity?

By forbidding the average Johnny exposure to what you deem "winner curriculum" (painfully debatable, but that is a different story) in the first place, you are simply playing dirty. Again, shameless.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: here
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IMO there are several factors that contribute to the problem.

Taking Mattie's word that Disney has a good educational program, I don't think the concept of a Disney field trip alone is a problem.

I don't have a problem with the kids from the gifted program getting a trip that the others don't. That's life, right? Although. I don't see why the other kids wouldn't benefit also.

I have a problem with 60% of the kids being considered gifted. That's a lot. Unless this is a magnet school for the gifted, then that isn't as surprising.

I think 5 days is a long field trip that 1/2 the school gets to go on.

I think the response from the non-gifted sibling quoted in the OP is overly dramatic, and probably not a normal response.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ123 View Post

Life is not fair.
Correct. Life is not fair.

But some of us are working hard to even things out a little.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
A bunch of hogwash. That's why our country is staring at the abyss, folks want to do away with our competitiveness so we all can be "equal". Whatever that means.

I don't see how this is any different than a kid that can run faster than other kids or plays a musical instrument any better.
It is because that is supposed to be PART of the ACADEMIC CURRICULUM. Mediocre musicians are not deprived of their right to at least try to play the instrument; neither are mediocre athletes deprived of the right to run.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:38 PM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,952,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ123 View Post
The gifted kids go to Disney, that sucks if you are not gifted.
The football players win the season and they get a trip to the playoffs, that sucks if you are not on the football team.
The French club goes to France, that sucks if you are not in French club.
The low income 4 yr olds get to go to preschool in the PS. The other 4yr olds have to stay home because they live in the middle of nowhere and there isn't any other private preschools around. That sucks for them.
A gifted kid in 7th grade has to read books at a 9th grade level when he is WAY above that and board to death. That sucks that he has to go to school everyday knowing he will not be challenged.
The kid with an IQ of 65 gets a 1 on 1 teacher and the kid with an IQ of 135 get to read a book 2 yrs ahead of his grade or gets to do an extra art project with his book report.

Life is not fair.
You make pathetic analogies.
It sucks that I was unfortunate enough to read them.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:40 PM
 
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Brava, Syracusa!

Last edited by formercalifornian; 10-03-2011 at 10:37 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:41 PM
 
Location: here
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I'm wondering who planned this trip. What would stop the teachers and/or parents of the kids on the other tracks from planning the same kind of trip.
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