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Old 10-03-2011, 08:43 PM
 
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Edward, you need to review the meaning of egalitarianism.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:47 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
It is because that is supposed to be PART of the ACADEMIC CURRICULUM. Mediocre musicians are not deprived of their right to at least try to play the instrument; neither are mediocre athletes deprived of the right to run.
If it is at school, then mediocre musicians and athletes are deprived of those options. A mediocre trumpet player whose audition does not merit a spot in band will not be given a place in the band nor in band class. A mediocre football player will be benched the entire season or will not even make the cut for the team.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:49 PM
 
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Education is not competition; it is preparation for competition.

Further reading...Only for MY Kid

Last edited by formercalifornian; 10-03-2011 at 09:41 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
I don't have a problem with the kids from the gifted program getting a trip that the others don't. That's life, right? Although. I don't see why the other kids wouldn't benefit also.
Key point!

Do your enriching...(rriiight) Disney trip.
Then have the kids write an essay about the darn Disney trip.
Then watch the truly GT kids debunk escapism and post-Fordist ideas as reflected in Hollywood's media industrial complex... all while the rest provide a description of Cinderella's dress, and how it was...like...really cute.

Now we've got our beloved winners and losers. We can all sleep at night knowing Darwin won't twist in his grave.

But somewhere among these extremes, you will have lots of kids who will have gotten something out of whatever field trip you're doing if you bothered to open their minds to anything of worth during the trip.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by buffy888 View Post
If it is at school, then mediocre musicians and athletes are deprived of those options. A mediocre trumpet player whose audition does not merit a spot in band will not be given a place in the band nor in band class. A mediocre football player will be benched the entire season or will not even make the cut for the team.
You're equating extra-curriculum with curriculum. Wrong.

Academics of ALL degrees of difficulty are part of the curriculum!
Playing an instrument and sports are NOT part of the curriculum. And yes, within the institution of education, these extra-curriculars are LESS important than THE CURRICULUM.

I have noticed may American parents have an awfully difficult time grasping this concept. Public schooling was not invented for your kid to play sports. Public schooling was not invented for your kid to play an instrument.

Schooling was invented to teach your kid A-C-A-D-E-M-I-C-S.
From very basic to very difficult.
As for performance...your kid's mileage will vary.

But your kid should be exposed to ALL there is, academically speaking.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:15 PM
 
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And this is the thing about the way we teach today: kids don't stretch their intellects because they're busy chasing points. They know school is a competition with winners and losers, and they'll do anything to avoid losing. Our kids are terrified to fail, and greatness will always elude those who are afraid to fail.

That's the reason for the abyss, Edward.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 10-03-2011 at 09:41 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:42 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,981,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Schooling was invented to teach your kid A-C-A-D-E-M-I-C-S.
From very basic to very difficult.
As for performance...your kid's mileage will vary.

But your kid should be exposed to ALL there is, academically speaking.
So.... if a child is stuggling with the basic curriculum, as based on a large percentage of national testing scores, these same children should be further exposed to more advanced concepts??? I'm not sure how that would help, should they not first master the basic grade level?

lets take math for example, if you are on an advanced track and "gifted" (I use the term lightly), in my district, you double up on seventh and eighth grade math one year, take algebra in eighth grade, and eventually take AP Calculus as a senior. Do you want everybody to be thrown into a math class that progresses twice as fast as normal, and above grade level, on a sink or swim mentality? What about those that are struggling with the regular grade level and speed? Or should the "gifted" kids have to slow down, and made to wait like everybody else?

I am all for individualized education, but without homeschooling, I don't know how that is possible. Even in the gifted curriculum, there are those truly gifted that are bored silly (like one of mine), while the teacher teaches to the lowest common denominator in that class, which are really just above average (like another one of mine). It just happend to be at a higher level than the highest common denominator in the next group. If I had one that struggled, I surely wouldn't want them in the pressure filled high achieving classroom, I would think it would devastate their confidence. They should be able to go at their own pace, many times they will catch up and surpass, while the others crash and burn.

Last edited by cc0789; 10-03-2011 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
A bunch of hogwash. That's why our country is staring at the abyss, folks want to do away with our competitiveness so we all can be "equal". Whatever that means.

I don't see how this is any different than a kid that can run faster than other kids or plays a musical instrument any better.

Why stop there? How about kids with blond hair and blue eyes get to go to Disneyland, brown hair, brown eyed kids can get an afternoon at ChuckyCheese. Kids who whose weight is within normal ranges can have a trip to Europe while the kids whose weight is out of normal range can go to a museum. People who do not look at children and see potential are the problem with society.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Edward, you need to review the meaning of egalitarianism.
Harrison Bergeron

Quote:
THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:15 PM
 
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Can you clarify your intent with that literary reference, Nana?

I think Edward has confused equality of opportunity with equality of results. Providing all children with enrichment in no way guarantees that they will end up in the same place intellectually.
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