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Old 10-03-2011, 10:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by buffy888 View Post
If it is at school, then mediocre musicians and athletes are deprived of those options. A mediocre trumpet player whose audition does not merit a spot in band will not be given a place in the band nor in band class. A mediocre football player will be benched the entire season or will not even make the cut for the team.

And your point would be? I ask who cares? The child that tries and doesn't succeed has learned more than the child who tries and does. That alone says something about integrity and perseverence, something a lot of the truly G/T children could stand to learn.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
And your point would be? I ask who cares? The child that tries and doesn't succeed has learned more than the child who tries and does. That alone says something about integrity and perseverence, something a lot of the truly G/T children could stand to learn.
It's something my 8-year-old neighbor who thinks he doesn't have to work because he is smarter than the other students could definitely stand to learn. At this point, I'd like to see the g/t program kick him out on his butt.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Can you clarify your intent with that literary reference, Nana?

I think Edward has confused equality of opportunity with equality of results. Providing all children with enrichment in no way guarantees that they will end up in the same place intellectually.
People in this thread seem to want to hold the gifted back so that the other children have the chance to be equal.

You can expose kids to lots of things, but you are not going to get them to learn at the same pace as those who are intellectually gifted.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
You're equating extra-curriculum with curriculum. Wrong.

Academics of ALL degrees of difficulty are part of the curriculum!
Playing an instrument and sports are NOT part of the curriculum. And yes, within the institution of education, these extra-curriculars are LESS important than THE CURRICULUM.

I have noticed may American parents have an awfully difficult time grasping this concept. Public schooling was not invented for your kid to play sports. Public schooling was not invented for your kid to play an instrument.

Schooling was invented to teach your kid A-C-A-D-E-M-I-C-S.
From very basic to very difficult.
As for performance...your kid's mileage will vary.

But your kid should be exposed to ALL there is, academically speaking.
I was not educated in this country, but the public schools I attended many moons ago did indeed have sport, music, and many other enrichment programs. Public speaking, philanthropy, and a multitude of other pursuits do enhance education in my opinion. Test score results do not a gifted child make.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
People in this thread seem to want to hold the gifted back so that the other children have the chance to be equal.

You can expose kids to lots of things, but you are not going to get them to learn at the same pace as those who are intellectually gifted.
No, what we want is to see that all kids have the opportunity to tackle the difficult material set aside for the "gifted" because there is great educational value in trying and failing. And frankly it frosts my ass when educators determine a kid's academic future based on the dubious results of an IQ test given in the first couple of years of elementary school. I'd also like to see parents who live vicariously through their children's academic successes come to grips with the fact that most of their precious off-spring are not truly gifted, rather simply the beneficiaries of their parents' socio-economic status and political clout.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 10-03-2011 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:38 PM
 
Location: southern california
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k12 ideology of social engineering, winners are held in contempt, we the people will pay a terrible price for such mind set.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
k12 ideology of social engineering, winners are held in contempt, we the people will pay a terrible price for such mind set.
Winners are determined by the game, but everyone deserves to give their all in practice. And education is the practice, NOT the game!
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:05 PM
 
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Personally, I hate the classification of gifted and talented applied in schools. I believe all people have gifts and talents, but they aren't always academic in nature.

But, I have two children (out of three) who tested into that category. In the northeast, students weren't even tested until 5th grade. The initial weeding was done by standardized testing, those who excelled there went through additional testing. Only 12 children out of 6 schools made the cut, including my eldest. They then made up one class for these 12, and it was intense, high level academics. My son hated it. He was smart, but loved sports as well, and didn't feel as though he fit in with the other students. I offered to let him go back to his home school, but he chose to stick it out. From there, we moved to a district where the gifted program was a pull out class for one afternoon per week. It was a joke. However, because it was a very small school, the rest of the academics were easily tailored to the accelerated students.

There is a vast difference between school systems in how these programs are implemented. I have yet to see one well done in the elementary years. Having had kids in public schools in three states, I have been impressed with the programs in two of them, both at the middle school level.

Any child who excels academically should not be held back by the limits of the classroom. In high school this is easy to achieve, thanks to AP and dual enrollment classes, so G/T programs really don't serve a need except for the middle school years. Those are transition years anyway, for many kids, so I think it's important to help keep the high achievers challenged and focused on school work.

Another problem I see with the G/T programs, especially in elementary years, is that it is all or nothing. Many children can excel in one area, while struggling in another. I wish the math ace could move ahead even if his reading skills aren't as strong. Right now, they aren't set up that way.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:11 PM
 
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Here's an example of how our elementary has structured an opportunity for all children to challenge themselves academically. We have a math club that meets a couple mornings a week. A university math professor and several volunteers run the class, which draws about 50-60 students, a stunningly large percentage of our student body. The curriculum is Singapore Math, a very challenging and well-regarded program. There is no test to join math club. Kids start wherever they feel comfortable and progress at their own pace. The kids are not graded, but they must sign a contract promising that they will stay on task and give it their best. The Singapore problems are way beyond what our regular math curriculum requires. Amazingly, even the very average students thrive, invigorated by the challenge and accomplishing way more than anybody expects of them. Want to guess what has happened to our standardized test scores?

I had a similar experience with my own child this past summer when I signed her up for summer math review course. Free from the tyranny of grades, she covered an entire week's curriculum on the first day and happily dove into more advanced material. She came home from class and enthusiastically buried herself in the next higher class' material and finished it in record time, too. Is she brilliant? No. She was simply inspired and unafraid of challenge.

This is what I want for all kids!

Last edited by formercalifornian; 10-03-2011 at 11:28 PM..
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
9,529 posts, read 13,367,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
That alone says something about integrity and perseverence, something a lot of the truly G/T children could stand to learn.
How many gifted children do you know, that you feel qualified to make such a statement?
I know dozens and while what you say may be true of some it is certainly not true of all, or even of most. Gifted children are just like other children concerning their character and personality. Some are wonderful and some are not.
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