13 years of education - - worthless? (universities, degrees, county, schools)

[gardener34]

"I once had a supervisor that refused to allow any of us in his department to be promoted if we didn't have a college degree "

Many companies have this caveat, you go farther the more degrees you get. It stinks, and doesn't mean the people with bachelors can do their jobs any better. There are lame employees with their bachelors too.

There are also certain bachelors degrees that are now are deemed "useless" by certain employers - objective: so they hire H1B visa workers for less $. So even a hard earned bachelors degree can become obsolete.

I just get mad because of the way some college degree liberal arts programs are: TOTAL waste of time (years!) and money taking some of those general education classes they offer. They should start off with major classes as soon as they can. (Why was I required to take micro and macro economics - when I was an art major?)

There are also 2 and 3 year "certificate" programs for some fields that are very popular and well regarded around here from certain community colleges. You can get one of these, and THEN go on to get your bachelors and maybe even get your company to pay for it!

[katie45]

Great input, and thanks to everyone for their opinions/ideas.

It is true, and I am in full agreement, that formal education is necessary for very specialized fields (medical, law, etc).

But I also am in full agreement that there are many trades that could be taught to a student before they reach the age of 18.

And also agree that there are useless employees who hold a degree...just as there are useless employees without a college degree.

As far as the students being too immature; perhaps a lot of that falls back onto their upbringing. We can't turn the clock back; however, generations before us had children who were mature beyond their years compared to most kids nowadays.

I've heard it said that a college degree proves that the individual has self-discipline and tenacity. Ok, granted that that may very well be the case. But what about a dedicated, hard working employee who spends years at their job, has good work ethics and sticks with it while seeing someone with a college degree walk in the door to do the same job and receive a much larger paycheck. Is not the hard-working non-degreed employee demonstrating self-discipline and tenacity? And there are many times the lower-paid, non-degreed employee is required to train the college grad.

Again, I'm definitely NOT putting down anyone who elects to continue their education. I am just saying that those who do not want to go to college should be able to graduate after 13 yrs of education and be able to secure a good job with decent pay.

[emjbulls]

I like how Holland does things for this (as much as I can't stand a lot of things about there, this is one thing they do right).

Kids are tracked according to ability and what they want to do. There are something like 4 tracks within the school (I could be wrong, I'm going off of memory) and it has to do with a test that everyone takes and what they want to do. So if someone scored astronomical but wants to be mechanic, they would be put on the technical track instead of the university one. The kids that are on the technical track have to do an internship in high school and they are prepared for jobs where a college education is not a necessity.

One reason a system like that works is a lot less people go to university and college (there's a difference between the two there). It's not as looked down on there if someone does not have an advanced degree because so few people do. Here, so many people go to college that a college degree has become commonplace.

Nowadays in this country, a high school degree doesn't tell an employer what you know or don't know, just that you completed it. It's not a good standard for evaluating the skill set of an employee.

[katenik]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Our world has also become more technical and specialized and your K-12 education has laid the groundwork for more advanced learning in these specialized areas. I guess I am having a difficult time understanding your frustration. It has always been so that without an advanced degree some jobs were simply unobtainable. With the modernization of factories, etc. many of the unskilled positions in this country have been eliminated yet they have also increased the need for people to design, build and maintain these advanced pieces of equipment, thus the need for more specialized training.

There are still plenty of jobs out there that don't require an advanced degree but you are limiting yourself by not choosing to further your education.

i echo your statements. in our agrarian and early industrial past, it was possible to become a teacher with a secondary school education. education beyond the 8th grade wasn't particularly useful for people who labored with their hands, so anyone with more formal schooling than that was considered highly educated and qualified to teach others, whereas today some school districts require teachers to have master's degrees. it's a more complex world, and anyone who isn't willing to obtain higher education will be at a disadvantage in most instances. it's change, and (to borrow a phrase from the borg), resistance is futile.

[Stone28]

Depends on what field you want to get into. I know many multi-millionairs in the construction business. They never spent am day in collage. I think to be sucsessful you need to do have a lot of ambition and pick the right career.

[TN2HI]

Originally Posted by emjbulls

So if someone scored astronomical but wants to be mechanic, they would be put on the technical track instead of the university one. The kids that are on the technical track have to do an internship in high school and they are prepared for jobs where a college education is not a necessity.

Do you know what they do if someone changes their mind? Is there a way to switch tracks?

[emjbulls]

Originally Posted by TN2HI

Do you know what they do if someone changes their mind? Is there a way to switch tracks?

Yes. People can switch tracks. From my understanding (which is just asking my husband about it), it's easier to switch down than switch up, but it is possible in both directions.

Some people switch when they go for higher education. My husband's cousin was on the college track* and went to college there when he graduated. Eventually he went on to do a Ph.D. in England so even though he didn't go to the highest level high school, then did college instead of university, he was still able to go ahead and get his Ph.D.



*he was eligible for the university prep one but his family thought it was better for him to be on college prep one .. there is a difference between college and university there..college you graduate with the equivalent of a bachelors, university with a masters..the track you are on in high school typically prepares people for one or the other, not both

[Prettygyrl777]

Originally Posted by emjbulls

I like how Holland does things for this (as much as I can't stand a lot of things about there, this is one thing they do right).

Kids are tracked according to ability and what they want to do. There are something like 4 tracks within the school (I could be wrong, I'm going off of memory) and it has to do with a test that everyone takes and what they want to do. So if someone scored astronomical but wants to be mechanic, they would be put on the technical track instead of the university one. The kids that are on the technical track have to do an internship in high school and they are prepared for jobs where a college education is not a necessity.

One reason a system like that works is a lot less people go to university and college (there's a difference between the two there). It's not as looked down on there if someone does not have an advanced degree because so few people do. Here, so many people go to college that a college degree has become commonplace.

Nowadays in this country, a high school degree doesn't tell an employer what you know or don't know, just that you completed it. It's not a good standard for evaluating the skill set of an employee.

They just started doing this at the local highschool here (I'm in Florida). We have yet to see how it will impact the students so who knows...and you're right. The students can change tracks if they want to.

[Mike in TN]

They did those tracts when I was in high school in 1995. There was a technical path, university path, and dual path.

I don't think it was implemented well though.

[Padgett2]

The luckiest students are those that live in areas with a college or university near-by. Our school system is set up so that those that choose an Advanced Placement course (and do good work) will be allowed to attend college for their Senior Year. The really exceptional ones may go in their Junior year. The college year and credits fulfill the requirement for high school graduation.

Thus, it's possible for a student to finish high school with two years of college already done. My two oldest grands finished their Senior year this way.