13 years of education - - worthless? (college, state school, salary, master's)

[Rita Mordio]

Yes. The 13+ years spent in grade school is absolutely worthless. Nowadays, kids learn nothing in school by just taking basic classes. Grade school is merely a way to get a bunch of kids off the street, attempt to teach them the basics, then toss them away into the shark-infested waters known as reality.

Realistically-

Around here, high schools offer off-school technical training (for free..) in computer programming/repair/etc, a/c and heating repair, and mechanics (and a few others). In the school itself, there are business management classes available, and there are other classes in which the sole purpose is to get the children to start out in a decent paying career without college.

Kids can take college courses in high school, and get the credits for that class as well. If I ever decide to go back to school for a bachelor's degree.... I don't have to take any math (I've taken the college tests and have credit in: Algebra/Trig, Geometry, Statistics, and Calculus). Or, at least for the four years I'd be in school, I may have to take one math. I've also completed the college versions of chemistry, physics, and astronomy... I also obtained a year's worth of college english, government, human geography, and spanish.

So, while a high school diploma may not allow you to become a surgeon... those 13 years are not wasted as they pave the way for more education. However, you can (if you WANT) get the teaching and such that you need to get into a company (even if at entry level..) and work your way up.

[jhlcomp]

Originally Posted by J-Man

A recomended read for all of you.

The wisdom of avoiding higher education

There is always going to be a debate between those who hold the paper and those who do not. I lived with this stigma for some years thinking somehow I could make it without a degree. At 26, I realized there was no shortcut and went back to school. I hold a masters plus additional credits.

If you look at the people in the article - the woman got an undergraduate degree in biology. The natural path would be to go on for a masters or to go to med school. Just having a BS in biology is generally not enough. Then the person with a masters in music - not a great career move. What happened to motivation, creativity, and focus?

You have to choose your profession and degree with great thought and research. College, at the very least, teaches us to think and to reason. While we all know those who partied their way through college, for the most part the later still applies. And this is where the great discrepency lies between those with high school diplomas and college degrees. There is no convincing someone with a HS diploma that you learn to think in college because, afterall, what is the big deal -- everyone knows how to think. Not so.

College isn't for everyone. Then comes the trade schools and those who have enjoyed careers as carpenters, plumbers, etc. Thank goodness for them. If that is the profession of your choosing - terrific.

No one should knock college and advanced degrees -- many of us who have them worked very hard for them. In my case, I paid for mine out of savings and extra jobs.

[Mike in TN]

Before I went back to school I worked as an environmental, safety, and health coordinator at a concrete manufacturing plant.

The parent company of my employer would be a Fortune 500 company if it was publicly traded.

We had mechanical engineers, safety coordinators, accountants, etc. at my plant. The guy who ran it all and made the most money had a high school diploma - no formal education after that.

The regional manager that had about 1,000 employees under him and earned more than anyone else in the entire region didn't go to school beyond high school. In fact, I'm not sure he even graduated.

Is this common in other career fields? I don't know, I doubt it. But it does prove that people can do quite well without going to college. Like many of us have said, it depends on what field you're in.

[John23]

If you want to see something eerie, compare public school with the "BITE Model" of mind control...

Freedom of Mind Articles and Links

It makes it look like a big conspiracy, but school hits every single point in the model.

Do some of these sound familiar?

5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

7. Rigid rules and regulations

8. Need for obedience and dependency

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

This quote is eerie and scary...

"The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group." While you're in school, can you visualize a positive and fulfilled future without being in school?

"Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc."

Sound familiar? If you drop out of school, you'll be nothing, a nobody for the rest of your life.

Those higher education links were interesting.

You have to be careful with the statistics thrown out by colleges. Especially the often used..."the average college graduate makes X more money over his/her lifetime than someone with a highschool degree"

-You don't know how they calculate this number. They probably average alot of high demand degrees (engineering, law, medicine) with degrees that don't pay nearly as much, if anything (journalism, philosophy).

-Do they factor in opportunity cost and repaying college debt?

-Isn't it common sense that college graduates would automatically make more, even if they went into a technical field or something else. Their motivation and smarts would make them more money. Its not only the degree that makes them money.

[katie45]

Wow...the more I read these postings, the more I am convinced that a college degree should not be required for everyone to attain a good job/pay.

[2beamissourian]

Originally Posted by katie45

How often do you hear it said that with just a high-school diploma one cannot expect to get a decent paying job? Doesn't it seem odd that after spending 13 years in school it is still not sufficient education? If that be the case, what the heck has been going on in the classrooms all that time?

I have nothing against getting a college degree....however, why aren't the school systems using those 13 yrs (from kindergarten - 12th grade) to teach our children enough so that they could get a good job without having to spend another 4+ years (and mega bucks) to get more education?

I don't expect colleges to close their doors; but it sure seems ironic that a high school graduate is viewed as not knowing enough to earn a good paycheck.

Let's put those 13 yrs to better use!

On another note, I once had a supervisor that refused to allow any of us in his department to be promoted if we didn't have a college degree (in any major). His reason was that if he had to spend money for a college degree, then we should have to as well. As soon as he left the company and we were blessed with a sensible supervisor, promotions were awarded to anyone who earned it (college degree or not).

I would hardly say they are worthless......they are the stepping stones that build you ..to better study habits to learn the little things that help with the bigger things!!

I think American standards are low compared to even 3rd world countries - sad!! We pass our children ahead even if they do not know the material .... I think in America we take education for granted as well!

I wish I had taken more sciences in high school that is one topic I struggled with in college. I think we leave to much up to our school systems to decide in what is best for our children - yes they are suppose to know but sometimes we have to push a little harder for them to get what they need!

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by katie45

Wow...the more I read these postings, the more I am convinced that a college degree should not be required for everyone to attain a good job/pay.

Unfortunatly, the employers make those decisions not the employees.

Think of your k-12 education like this--to build a building you need to lay the foundation first, then build on that and the last thing you do is add the penthouse. Without the foundation, the penthouse wouldn't stand.

[glxyman21]

Originally Posted by Mike in TN

Before I went back to school I worked as an environmental, safety, and health coordinator at a concrete manufacturing plant.

The parent company of my employer would be a Fortune 500 company if it was publicly traded.

We had mechanical engineers, safety coordinators, accountants, etc. at my plant. The guy who ran it all and made the most money had a high school diploma - no formal education after that.

The regional manager that had about 1,000 employees under him and earned more than anyone else in the entire region didn't go to school beyond high school. In fact, I'm not sure he even graduated.

Is this common in other career fields? I don't know, I doubt it. But it does prove that people can do quite well without going to college. Like many of us have said, it depends on what field you're in.

Well you need to think how long have they been with the company? If they've been in for 30 years this might of been possible. I bet if they were to be replaced they would require a University degree.

[Mike in TN]

Originally Posted by glxyman21

Well you need to think how long have they been with the company?

Obviously that is important in these type of positions. Of course they worked their way up.

Originally Posted by glxyman21

If they've been in for 30 years this might of been possible. I bet if they were to be replaced they would require a University degree.

I don't think so at all. With almost certainty, this company would hire within. If the company had two employees under consideration for the position, I don't believe a degree would be the deciding factor.

[John23]

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/arti...tiondebt/43193

Here's another article from an "expert" using the famous "college graduates makes $1.2 million more than those with a highschool degree".

If every college major had the demand for engineering or law, it's case closed.

But what if someone spends a fortune earning a journalism degree, with newspapers, and print media declining?

Or a philosophy degree or history.

I'd be curious to see lifetime earning figures broken down by major.

I wonder if that $1.2 million figure is skewed from finance jobs on wall street (that's a cyclical business, and you're measuring the past 20 boom years). Skewed from one time bonuses. Skewed from the boom in Silicon Valley, who knows.

Say a highschool grade makes $8 an hour, 40-50 hours a week, that's about $17-$20 k a year.

Making $1.2 m more over 40 years, equals $30k more a year, that's $50 k! Hmmm.