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Old 08-29-2007, 04:29 PM
Status: "Only misdemeanors, Santa" (set 19 hours ago)
 
Location: On a hill near a river
14,404 posts, read 12,294,554 times
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Okay, everybody. Take a deep breath. If kids weren't locked up in school for those 13 years, what would they be up to?

Think about yourself now, people!!!

.....oh.........my...........god.........


Okay, you may now exhale and go about your daily business as usual.
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Old 09-03-2007, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Here
2,757 posts, read 3,807,235 times
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[quote=2beamissourian;1380608]I would hardly say they are worthless......they are the stepping stones that build you ..to better study habits to learn the little things that help with the bigger things!!

I did not indicate that 13 yrs of schooling are "worthless"; I am stating that after 13 yrs in school one should be able to attain a decent paying job and be trained to do more than serve up hamburgers.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:08 PM
 
1,571 posts, read 2,711,987 times
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It is unfortunate that most people see highschool now days as babysitting.

I went to one of the country's best highschools (West Springfield, Springfield Virginia), got A's and B's and took several honors classes, then burnt out after Community College when I tried going to a state school. Mostly because I was surrounded by people more emotionally immature than me (I felt like a 6th grader hanging around Kindergarteners), and surprise, after highschool most professors think they do not have to comply with disability laws and will hate you if you are white. If anything the best highschools in the nation give you a better general education than the typical state college.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,831 posts, read 3,397,090 times
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Today in the LA Times, there was a front page article in the business section on paying for college. $50,000 a year for Georgetown!!

I'm really suprised more people don't think critically about the costs involved. There's this automatic reflex (which comes from highschool brain washing IMO)...boom, how do I get into the best college??

Books are $1,000 a year in the article. Why do we still have big expensive books in an age of PDF's and digital media? I can find books for free in google books. It's like the over priced $5 hotdog at the movie theater...multiplied by 200x!

People catch onto ATM charges, and $6 candy at the theater..why haven't people caught on to the college racket?

I can't think of another business that can raise prices at will every year, while the value of their product goes down (gets diluted), wages are flat to down, industries are changing rapidly (or becoming useless..journalism), more foreign competition, etc.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
Today in the LA Times, there was a front page article in the business section on paying for college. $50,000 a year for Georgetown!!

I'm really suprised more people don't think critically about the costs involved. There's this automatic reflex (which comes from highschool brain washing IMO)...boom, how do I get into the best college??

Books are $1,000 a year in the article. Why do we still have big expensive books in an age of PDF's and digital media? I can find books for free in google books. It's like the over priced $5 hotdog at the movie theater...multiplied by 200x!

People catch onto ATM charges, and $6 candy at the theater..why haven't people caught on to the college racket?

I can't think of another business that can raise prices at will every year, while the value of their product goes down (gets diluted), wages are flat to down, industries are changing rapidly (or becoming useless..journalism), more foreign competition, etc.
You are right on target! Great posting! If students were able to gain sufficient education in 13 yrs (kindergarten - 12th grade) to secure a good paying job, it would put a lot of colleges/universities out of business!
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:19 PM
 
145 posts, read 460,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie45 View Post
You are right on target! Great posting! If students were able to gain sufficient education in 13 yrs (kindergarten - 12th grade) to secure a good paying job, it would put a lot of colleges/universities out of business!
It won't work that way. Your statement is a example of what economists refer to as the prisoner's dilemma. In a nutshell, when you have two criminals who can each skip jail if they collude and tell the police nothing, BUT are not sure whether the other one will squeal or not (keeping in mind that the squealer gets a much lighter sentence for being cooperative while the other guy gets shafted), then they both will decide to squeal. The outcome of both squealing is that they both get a jail sentence versus no sentence had they decided to just trust each other and shut up and stick to their story.

What's the similarity here you ask? It is this: Students getting "good paying jobs" after 13 years of education will require trust that no other student will go to college. Because if a student went to college but everyone else went to work right after high school, then the highly educated one will make much better salary (supply/demand). Pretty soon you will have all the ambitious students wanting to goto college, not because they really want to study more, but because they don't trust the other students not to do the same, with the result that almost all students end up going to college. The outcome of students going to college is that they all get jobs that come after 4 years of lost earnings plus large loans versus if nobody had gone to college at all, in which case everyone would have had "good paying jobs" with no lost years of income and no large loans.

Now the same dynamic is beginning to play out out for Master's degrees.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,831 posts, read 3,397,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie45 View Post
You are right on target! Great posting! If students were able to gain sufficient education in 13 yrs (kindergarten - 12th grade) to secure a good paying job, it would put a lot of colleges/universities out of business!
Another factor that doesn't get talked about much in the media...why is there still so much focus on just getting "one major"? Graduating with a degree in ____ (Arts, Sciences, Business).

50 years ago, that model worked great. Jobs were much more stable, you had little if any foreign competition, it was costly and difficult to learn something new (vs free information now on the internet), the cost of living was so much lower, dad went to work, mom stayed with the kids. You had a much bigger cushion between you and bankruptcy/financial ruin.

Now, we live in a completely different world. Why have one major when industries change so much?

Desibear hit a good point, I dont know if "everyone" can graduate with "good paying jobs". But people could be in a much better place than they are now.

$200 k for 4 years at Georgetown. If you invested that for 40 years at 7%, that's almost $3,000,000.

It's funny how colleges never compare income from a major vs investing. You'd have to make approx $75,000 a year over a non college grad to break even on your education.
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Old 09-11-2007, 08:45 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 7,826,196 times
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Wasnt there a time when most people did not go to college, and ended up doing Okay?

Which generation did this college boom start? Was is Gen X?

I honestly felt that college was just like high school, and middle school. All of the assignments were half baked, and the professors just came up with them off the top of their heads. They just needed something to grade us on.

I did have to learn to think critically but because the teachers did not think at all.

Learning was not the challenge, Teachers were the challenge.

But I learned all that in high school, and middle school, were everything was the same as college.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
Wasnt there a time when most people did not go to college, and ended up doing Okay?

Which generation did this college boom start? Was is Gen X?

I honestly felt that college was just like high school, and middle school. All of the assignments were half baked, and the professors just came up with them off the top of their heads. They just needed something to grade us on.

I did have to learn to think critically but because the teachers did not think at all.

Learning was not the challenge, Teachers were the challenge.

But I learned all that in high school, and middle school, were everything was the same as college.
Amen!!!!

Too many companies today place the "college degree" on a pedestal and worship it. They focus on the sheepskin and not on the acutal abilities/skills of the individual. We have way too many at work who have a college degree but have no clue what they are doing..and these folks are earning extremely high salaries just because of having a college degree...their salaries are not based on their compentencies. They have to depend on those around them to actually get the work done...and who are the ones 'doing the work'? Answer: those without a college degree who have 20-30+ yrs experience and have excellent work ethics. And those 'worker bees' are earning FAR less than the college crowd. Go figure. Oh, forgot to mention....while the worker bees are getting the work done, the 'college crowd' are spending the workday socializing. Gosh, thank goodness they spent the time and money to get that formal education! It sure is paying off!!
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:14 AM
 
23,901 posts, read 19,976,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie45 View Post
How often do you hear it said that with just a high-school diploma one cannot expect to get a decent paying job? Doesn't it seem odd that after spending 13 years in school it is still not sufficient education? If that be the case, what the heck has been going on in the classrooms all that time?

I have nothing against getting a college degree....however, why aren't the school systems using those 13 yrs (from kindergarten - 12th grade) to teach our children enough so that they could get a good job without having to spend another 4+ years (and mega bucks) to get more education?

I don't expect colleges to close their doors; but it sure seems ironic that a high school graduate is viewed as not knowing enough to earn a good paycheck.

Let's put those 13 yrs to better use!

On another note, I once had a supervisor that refused to allow any of us in his department to be promoted if we didn't have a college degree (in any major). His reason was that if he had to spend money for a college degree, then we should have to as well. As soon as he left the company and we were blessed with a sensible supervisor, promotions were awarded to anyone who earned it (college degree or not).
The world is obviously changing. Knowledge is growing exponentially so the time to learn it must increase from 13 years to a lifetime. Otherwise those with knowledge will become the masters of the intellectually limited. The attached article may be helpful.
Exponential Growth

Don't blame the successful who have knowledge for the shortcomings of those who don't. Much of the current foreclosure mess is the result of folks not using knowledge and timing as well as others.
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