13 years of education - - worthless? (catholic school, master, social science, history)

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by mommabear2

I get what you are saying but I would have to agree with glxyman21. Kids in high school are too immature and inexperienced to know what they want (usually). I think high school should offer more along the line of a trade skill - it's silly that these programs are being cut from our educational system. Not all kids want/should go to college though it is helpful.

Kids in high school don't even know enough to know what there is to want to want. To the grammar Nazi's, I know that was terrible English but just trying to make a point.

Not knowing what they want they tend to follow the herd where they all end up getting MBA's to the extent it appears colleges are spitting them out like popcorn.

[city_data91]

Originally Posted by katie45

How often do you hear it said that with just a high-school diploma one cannot expect to get a decent paying job? Doesn't it seem odd that after spending 13 years in school it is still not sufficient education? If that be the case, what the heck has been going on in the classrooms all that time?

I have nothing against getting a college degree....however, why aren't the school systems using those 13 yrs (from kindergarten - 12th grade) to teach our children enough so that they could get a good job without having to spend another 4+ years (and mega bucks) to get more education?

I don't expect colleges to close their doors; but it sure seems ironic that a high school graduate is viewed as not knowing enough to earn a good paycheck.

Let's put those 13 yrs to better use!

On another note, I once had a supervisor that refused to allow any of us in his department to be promoted if we didn't have a college degree (in any major). His reason was that if he had to spend money for a college degree, then we should have to as well. As soon as he left the company and we were blessed with a sensible supervisor, promotions were awarded to anyone who earned it (college degree or not).

Some jobs require knowledge that is too hard to learn when you're between the ages of 5 and 17. 13 years may be a long time, but they can only teach you what your mind is developed enough to learn.

After seeing some of the people in my class that graduated high school, I can see why a high school diploma is not well-respected these days. If people want good jobs with a high school diploma, there should be a way to make a high school diploma indicate that you're smart. Perhaps give people a special diploma if they have good grades and took hard classes. Something to separate them from their classmates that barely passed.

The problem with high school diplomas is that they don't mean much. Everyone gets them, whether they're an A student or a D student. The A students must go to college to differentiate themselves from the D students.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by city_data91

Some jobs require knowledge that is too hard to learn when you're between the ages of 5 and 17. 13 years may be a long time, but they can only teach you what your mind is developed enough to learn.

After seeing some of the people in my class that graduated high school, I can see why a high school diploma is not well-respected these days. If people want good jobs with a high school diploma, there should be a way to make a high school diploma indicate that you're smart. Perhaps give people a special diploma if they have good grades and took hard classes. Something to separate them from their classmates that barely passed.

The problem with high school diplomas is that they don't mean much. Everyone gets them, whether they're an A student or a D student. The A students must go to college to differentiate themselves from the D students.

Good post.

Unfortunately, when everyone has something, it's value goes down. It's rare things we value. In a world where everyone gets a high school diploma, a high school diploma isn't worth much.

[dgz]

I think that life on planet earth is just more complicated today. Even the inside of a car looks far more complex than it did 40 years ago.

I recall that when I finished my 12th year, there was so much still that we had not learned. I think that the first 12 years (or 13, if you include kindergarten) are more like a 'starter program' for later. I never viewed a high school diploma as a point of completion. Once someone gets a high school diploma, they need to continue and pursue a course of study. For one person, this might be a college program to become an engineer. For another, this might be a vocational program to become a plumber or an electrician.

I meet too many recent college graduates who seem initially 'useless' in the business and technical world (until they get more specific professional training). So, my view of the usefulness of a high school graduate is even more diminished.

I think that your supervisor's view on 'everyone having to pay for a degree' is dumb. However, a degree does tend to communicate: "Here is a person who has the ability to set a goal, work toward it, and see it through to completion." It might also suggest (but not always) that the person has a sense of intellectual curiosity and a desire toward self-improvement.

[city_data91]

I have a question for the people that graduated high school a long time ago. In your day, did almost everyone graduate high school like they do today? If not, what happened to the people that weren't as smart? Did they just drop out? Was the dropout rate higher?

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by city_data91

I have a question for the people that graduated high school a long time ago. In your day, did almost everyone graduate high school like they do today? If not, what happened to the people that weren't as smart? Did they just drop out? Was the dropout rate higher?

No, not everyone graduated. In my time, they just got jobs. In my mother's time, they either got jobs or went to trade school. IMO, we need to bring back trade schools. Not everyone is an intellectual or should be college bound but that doesn't mean they can't contribute.

It's to the point a college degree of some kind is required for jobs that used to not even require a high school diploma. All this does is make it harder for people who aren't good in school to make it in life.

My mechanic does not need a degree to fix my car. He needs to know his way around under the hood. I have no idea why we decided that everyone should have as a goal graduation from high school and attending college. That is not realistic and setting up that expectation makes it that much harder for those who don't.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by dgz

I think that life on planet earth is just more complicated today. Even the inside of a car looks far more complex than it did 40 years ago.

I recall that when I finished my 12th year, there was so much still that we had not learned. I think that the first 12 years (or 13, if you include kindergarten) are more like a 'starter program' for later. I never viewed a high school diploma as a point of completion. Once someone gets a high school diploma, they need to continue and pursue a course of study. For one person, this might be a college program to become an engineer. For another, this might be a vocational program to become a plumber or an electrician.

I meet too many recent college graduates who seem initially 'useless' in the business and technical world (until they get more specific professional training). So, my view of the usefulness of a high school graduate is even more diminished.

I think that your supervisor's view on 'everyone having to pay for a degree' is dumb. However, a degree does tend to communicate: "Here is a person who has the ability to set a goal, work toward it, and see it through to completion." It might also suggest (but not always) that the person has a sense of intellectual curiosity and a desire toward self-improvement.

I am so ready to simplify. All those gadgets in my car are just things to break that I have to repair . I'm ready to go back to manual locks, manual windows, manual seat adjustments and manual sliding doors to name a few. I find myself, more and more, asking myself if I need all these features. Are they really worth it?

I think we need a, serious, back to basics movement. I'd love to live somewhere where I didn't need a car at all. Unfortunately, I can't get from my house to work 12 miles away without one. By the time you factor in the cost of a vehicle, gas, maintenance on a vehicle and insurance, I'm paying $150/week, averaged over 10 years (that's keeping the car 10 years and not buying new) to get back and forth to work. We need mass transit.

[Houston3]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

No, not everyone graduated. In my time, they just got jobs. In my mother's time, they either got jobs or went to trade school. IMO, we need to bring back trade schools. Not everyone is an intellectual or should be college bound but that doesn't mean they can't contribute.

It's to the point a college degree of some kind is required for jobs that used to not even require a high school diploma. All this does is make it harder for people who aren't good in school to make it in life.

My mechanic does not need a degree to fix my car. He needs to know his way around under the hood. I have no idea why we decided that everyone should have as a goal graduation from high school and attending college. That is not realistic and setting up that expectation makes it that much harder for those who don't.

"My mechanic does not need a degree to fix my car."

You haven't looked under the hood of a new car have you? LOL

Four years of college just to learn how to take off stuff so you can get to the area to fix the problem.. LOL

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Houston3

"My mechanic does not need a degree to fix my car."

You haven't looked under the hood of a new car have you? LOL

Four years of college just to learn how to take off stuff so you can get to the area to fix the problem.. LOL

I have. You don't need a degree to fix a car. You need to know your way around under the hood. My mechanic isn't programming the computer in my car all by himself. At worst, he downloads a program using a procedure that is spelled out for him.

He needs to be smart enough to figure out what has gone wrong but they have computer diagnostics for that and experience is a great teacher when it comes to learning what has gone wrong and the best way to fix it. Anymore, that's just replace a part though so mechanics, today, really don't need to be as good as mechanics were years ago when they could fix things instead of just intall new using a procedure written out for them.

I spent 18 years in automotive. I've written some of those repair procedures. What a mechanic needs is to apprentice. Learn his way around the shop. Learn the tools of the trade. Calculus will not help him fix my car.

Cars may look complicated but they're still just made up of pieces that are put together. You just need a blueprint, assembly instructions and an idea of what needs fixing. Now THERE's the challenge but a degree won't help. My car is in the shop right now and, so far, they're fixing 4 things I didn't even bring it in for that the computer says need fixing. There are just too many things that can go wrong on today's cars but the solution is, usually, trial and error and a college degree won't help there. Where a college degree helps is in designing a repairable product but, alas, that's not exactly what the auto companies and stylists want. Repair is an afterthought.

I once worked on designing a part that took 8 hours to disassemble for repair because the stylists insisted on no visible fasteners. When we were done, and delivered what they wanted, they looked confused and said "we can't see the fasteners to take this off for repair"....well DUHHHHH!!! They should shoot the stylists about halfway through a program and let the engineers design something that works and can be repaired. Ah....in my dream world....At least the dealership is making money on repairs in this recession...

[cat1116]

Original question - Thirteen years of education - - worthless ?

That depends on what the degree is in AND GPA.
I've been finding out that if you don't have a GPA of 3.0 or higher, you can forget applying for jobs - even within your own organization. It doesn't seem to matter that your school graded on a higher scale than another - all they care to see is the number. Mine was a 2.9_ Had I known this, would I have studied even harder? Would I have pressed the Administrative Division to reconsider based on various factors - ie, Dean's List, et cetera ... ? One instructor did not believe that a student even deserved an A, as that would mean "perfectionism" and there is only ONE that is perfect, certainly not a mortal. So, moral of the story boys and girls: Make sure you get REALLY good grades, 3.0 or higher.