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Old 11-05-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,860,385 times
Reputation: 1434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Remember this, too:

Aircraft Pilots and Flight Engineers

Many pilots have learned to fly in the military, but growing numbers have college degrees with flight training from civilian flying schools that are certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).. . . . . Pilots are highly trained professionals who fly airplanes or helicopters to carry out a wide variety of tasks.
lol want to talk about a flooded job market that is highly competitive and is full of people $100k in student loan debt making less then $40k a year. I personally have seen people 2 and 3 degrees in still back inschool hoping it will get them a job.

Which still ex-military reigns king. Who would you hire, to fly your plane, a guy with a degree, a lot of debt and 4,000 hours flying beer cans with propellars. Or a ex-military who has flown 12,000 hours in a larger 4 engine turbine powered aircraft made by the same company that makes most airliners?

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,051 posts, read 99,018,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82 View Post
lol want to talk about a flooded job market that is highly competitive and is full of people $100k in student loan debt making less then $40k a year. I personally have seen people 2 and 3 degrees in still back inschool hoping it will get them a job.

Which still ex-military reigns king. Who would you hire, to fly your plane, a guy with a degree, a lot of debt and 4,000 hours flying beer cans with propellars. Or a ex-military who has flown 12,000 hours in a larger 4 engine turbine powered aircraft made by the same company that makes most airliners?

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
According to all the statistics, not just CD ranting, there are fewer of them than of people with less education looking for jobs.

I don't ask the credentials of my airline pilot. I assume s/he has passed the requisite qualifications for flying a plane.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,860,385 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
According to all the statistics, not just CD ranting, there are fewer of them than of people with less education looking for jobs.

I don't ask the credentials of my airline pilot. I assume s/he has passed the requisite qualifications for flying a plane.

You are right, people should go out and get a degree, take on big debt and get one of those high paying pilot jobs. Before you say, "they don't need to take on debt". See what the costs are to get the different pilot licenses required.

because its cheap to fly aircraft and build up time...


A pilot is possibly one of the last careers I would suggest anyone to get into.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,051 posts, read 99,018,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82 View Post
You are right, people should go out and get a degree, take on big debt and get one of those high paying pilot jobs. Before you say, "they don't need to take on debt". See what the costs are to get the different pilot licenses required.

because its cheap to fly aircraft and build up time...


A pilot is possibly one of the last careers I would suggest anyone to get into.
Fine. I'm not necessarily recommending becoming a pilot. Someone else brought it up, and I pointed out it is becoming more common for pilots to have a degree.

A Certified Nursing Assistant is possibly one of the last careers I would suggest anyone get into.
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Old 11-05-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,860,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Fine. I'm not necessarily recommending becoming a pilot. Someone else brought it up, and I pointed out it is becoming more common for pilots to have a degree.

A Certified Nursing Assistant is possibly one of the last careers I would suggest anyone get into.
It was me who brought up aviation, and I was talking about technicians. Most of them do not have a degree and keep aircraft in the air. For the most part a pilot types in a course and the plan autoflies and autolands(guess who makes those systems work). Most modern aircraft, are a software load and a federal air regulation away from not needing a pilot.

It's crazy I work with people older then my parents as it isn't a popular trade career.

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:39 AM
 
10,749 posts, read 20,196,165 times
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I want to chime in here and counter some of what MustangEater has said. I work as a pilot for a US 121 carrier (airline). I have flown with several former aircraft mechanics who left good paying tech jobs to fly aircraft at the airlines because the pay and working conditions are light years ahead of what they would make as a mechanic long term.

For every $75k+ technican job there are dozens of $35k-$40k/yr A&Ps working in harsh conditions for $16-$20/hr around the country working 50-60 hours a week, with mx controllers breathing down their neck with forced overtime, road trips, and pressured signoffs. In fact the median wage for avionics techs is just $24/hr. Working even 55(!) hours a week that is roughly $65,000 a year. At 40 hours a week that is just $50,000 a year. In one day on the job I can earn more than an average avionics tech will make all week. I am 30 and this year should crack 120k. My first month making over 10k was when I turned 26.

Don't get me wrong I think highly of our mechanics, and I myself like to work on mechanical things as it interests me. But I'm puzzled by his attitude and statements. I left college with a little over $15k in debt and all my certificates. Pay was low at first ($30k and under) but quickly rises as you progress. My buddy is overseas making a quarter mil a year flying in Asia, I would like to see an avionics tech touch that.

Being a pilot is basically just like being a heavy equipment operator. A blue collar type job but also mixes some white collar skills. A hybrid where we have no boss looking over our shoulder checking up on us, and only ourselves to judge how we complete a task. Technically no degree is required to actually operate the equipment, but companies have imposed that requirement or at least "highly preferred". Long story short if you want to work in the airlines you should have a degree, take it or leave it. That probably goes for pretty much any career these days. That being said there is no need for these $25,000 and up universities, there are much easier and cheaper ways to obtain an accredited 4 year degree for very little money in the big scheme of things.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,860,385 times
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A pilot most definitely has a better life then a technician.

But to get in that seat is not easy. Going through school I actually was with pilots who were struggling with work who were getting their a&ps to try and help there chances beyond there degree and ratings.

What was the cost of your degrees, different ratings and flight time?

Piloting is a highly competitive field. Lots of kids want to be piolots and cowboys when they grow up. One of those is a viable career. There our plenty of right seaters still making $40k on regional airlines after years of flying.

Of course overseas there is big money. Thee are mechanic jobs that make $150k overseas.

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,860,385 times
Reputation: 1434
Also I want to go back to statements earlier.

No one is saying its better without a degree in all cases. All degrees are not equal. Yet the statistics are skewed to say so. There are plenty of jobs degrees out there that are very hard to find jobs in, have a poor Outlook, etc....

So the saying you have a degree, you are guranted a good paying job is not true.

There are trade programs that have a better job outlook, pay scale, and job stability then an amount of degrees. Not all degrees but some.

The fairytail of having a degree and you are set for life is not true.

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:30 AM
 
10,749 posts, read 20,196,165 times
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An FO will crack $40k on his second year generally. It's not great money but certain livable. At years 3-5 you're well in the mid-$50's if you bid to work with maybe 13-14 days off a month. If not you are getting 16-18 days off a month. It's a tradeoff. You can't just look at pay, you have to look at the whole package.

Or you could do what I did a few months last year and bid to work "on call". On call 8 hours a day and worked 15 hours the whole month, IIRC it was only about 5 days. Yeah, so I only made 6k that month but I put my uniform on only 5 times!

It's stupid to look at starting pay and first or second year pay and not look at the long term pay.

Certificate cost varies but nowadays is probably roughly $40k (that is if you don't buy your own plane to do it in). The smart people do that and go to a commuter as a young man and obtain a degree based upon their qualifications. Typically that means out of 120 credits toward a BS degree, your ratings and work experience will get you around 60-80 credits. Beyond that they take college classes and to the tune of $10k-$12k have a 4-year. For those that go the college route from the get go, costs can vary. You can do it for $40k + whatever college of your choice costs. Just like anything there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Sure it's more expensive than trade school but I also sit in my nice warm "office" and write stuff up. I don't worry about it. The mechanics are the ones outside in the elements working 6-7 days a week. It's a rough life.

That being said, until recently the hotel van drivers were BS or MS degree holding graduates. They were making $8-$10/hr plus tips with a higher education than me. The economy has somewhat turned around and they are moving on but it's still tough out there. A degree doesn't equal great job. I agree that they are pushed too much. A pilot is much more like a trade than so an accountant or lawyer.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:03 AM
 
610 posts, read 2,693,098 times
Reputation: 784
Wheelsup:

Just curious, which airline do you work for?

Also, you seen to have a passion for flying and enjoy the career, but according to many of the posts I have read on forums like jetcareers.com and pprune.com, most current airline pilots do not recommend the career field. They say that the industry is full of layoffs, furloughs, reduced pay, crappy hours, etc. Have you ever been furloughed? If not, how did you avoid it?

You are correct about pilots making a lot of money in Asia, but the Asian aviation market is growing by leaps and bounds. You can't say that about the US aviation industry.

I have my application in for the Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot program. Hopefully I can get on with them sometime in the future.
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