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Old 11-06-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,346,783 times
Reputation: 48613

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82 View Post
I think my job is more important then a teachers, I feel they should get paid less and I get paid more. What is to say your opinion is more valuable then my opinion? (this is just an example teachers don't get in a tizzy)

We can all have opinions but who decides what job is more important then another, which job is "worth" more. I prefer the free market to that. Not peoples opinions.
I'm sure you noticed that the thread itself is entitled, "Teachers paid too much/ little? What do you think?"

Thus, the entire purpose of the thread is the desire by some poster or another to gather opinions. Were you under a different impression, based on the OP's title?
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,838,571 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, my pay is my pay. When I was an engineer, no one every calculated my pay by adusting for only 10.5 months worked (I had 1.5 months off). This doesn't make pay fair. My pay is my pay. The standard of living the job affords me is the standard of living the job affords me...PERIOD. My standard of living doesn't go up because school is only in session 9.5 months out of the year and they're not offering me work during the summer to make up the difference. I'd take it if they were. Do you, seriously, think the 4 or 5 extra weeks I have off as a teacher justifies paying me half of what I can make as an engineer? Do you calculate everyone's pay by taking out their vacation and holiday time or do you just do this for teachers?

The only way your comparison is fair is if I'm turning down summer work. I'm not. My standard of living isn't determined by how many weeks they ask me to work per year unless I'm able to work another job during the summer that pays equivalent to what I'm paid for the 10 months I teach. If I can't make up the difference, it's moot to pro rate my pay because it changes nothing. Most people have vacation pay and holiday pay but we don't pro rate their wages because of it.
You started off with your pay is your pay. You are right. And despite what you think you still have a significant amount of time off the rest of the working world does not have.

A part time employee working 30 hours a week, has a hard time getting a job that only works you 10 hours a week.

Does that mean they deserve 40 hour week pay based on the fact they work 30 hours?

If the market drives you to leave teaching, so be it. It is educations loss and industries gain. Fair market and supply/demand will balance it out(unless we meddle with it)

Mod Cut - Removed inappropriate comment

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 11-06-2011 at 01:01 PM..
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,945 posts, read 4,713,893 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82 View Post
I think my job is more important then a teachers, I feel they should get paid less and I get paid more. What is to say your opinion is more valuable then my opinion? (this is just an example teachers don't get in a tizzy)
I was responding to the OP's request for opinions and provided mine.

Yours is welcome, too.

Quote:
We can all have opinions but who decides what job is more important then another, which job is "worth" more. I prefer the free market to that. Not peoples opinions.
What market forces factor into education?

Quote:
Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
Sent from my old-fashioned desktop computing device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,838,571 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
I was responding to the OP's request for opinions and provided mine.

Yours is welcome, too.



What market forces factor into education?



Sent from my old-fashioned desktop computing device.
If they cannot fill teaching positions, they will have to raise their pay. By law they cannot simple just shut down. They are forced to provide schooling for children.

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:49 AM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,122,907 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Nope. I put in more hours as a teacher than I did as an engineer. As an engineer, I never brought home work in the evenings and if I worked weekends I was paid overtime. As a teacher, I bring work home with me all the time and I'm not paid a dime for weekend work. I've added up the hours and if you counted all of my time over 45 hours per week during the school year as comp time, and gave me as much vacation time as I had as an engineer, they'd still owe me 3 weeks comp time when you run out of year.

Yes, time & productivity = money and I'm putting in more time than I did as an engineer!! I just work the bulk of my hours during 9.5 months of the year...which, ironically, I did as an engineer (10.5 months there) too but no one told me I deserved less pay for that.
Um, okay. Why are you changing the topic? You can't use how many hours you work per week as an excuse to explain why your salary should be considered as 12-months worth of pay when you only work for 10 months.

It appears that you are branching out into why you feel you deserve more. That's fine, but not related to the 10 month vs 12 month discussion.

Every exempt job is different and has different hours associated to it. Even engineering jobs. One engineer could work 60 hours per week, while the other works 30. I used to work 60 hours per week 5 years ago, and now work about 25 hours per week, and make more money. Why? Because I decided to. Not because I complained about my employer or employment conditions.

That being said, teachers are teachers for various reasons. I've put out the numbers for the median salaries of the teachers in my district, and they are close to private sector jobs of individuals living in the district area. That seems fair to me.

Okay, one could argue the value of teachers are important. And we should be more selective, and pay them what they are worth (more). I agree. I think we have a lot of underpaid good teachers, and a lot of useless teachers.

I believe in turning highschools into college-style classrooms and paying the teachers accordingly (which would be more).
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
3,383 posts, read 6,838,571 times
Reputation: 1434
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I'm sure you noticed that the thread itself is entitled, "Teachers paid too much/ little? What do you think?"

Thus, the entire purpose of the thread is the desire by some poster or another to gather opinions. Were you under a different impression, based on the OP's title?

I was stating who is the person to say which opinion is correct and which is wrong? I do now see it does come off as an attack on the posters opinion, it was not ment to be.

Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:56 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,945 posts, read 4,713,893 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82 View Post
If they cannot fill teaching positions, they will have to raise their pay. By law they cannot simple just shut down. They are forced to provide schooling for children.
So, the market doesn't really factor in education issues after all.

Quote:
Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
Sent from my antiquated desktop confuser device.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Um, okay. Why are you changing the topic? You can't use how many hours you work per week as an excuse to explain why your salary should be considered as 12-months worth of pay when you only work for 10 months.

It appears that you are branching out into why you feel you deserve more. That's fine, but not related to the 10 month vs 12 month discussion.

Every exempt job is different and has different hours associated to it. Even engineering jobs. One engineer could work 60 hours per week, while the other works 30. I used to work 60 hours per week 5 years ago, and now work about 25 hours per week, and make more money. Why? Because I decided to. Not because I complained about my employer or employment conditions.

That being said, teachers are teachers for various reasons. I've put out the numbers for the median salaries of the teachers in my district, and they are close to private sector jobs of individuals living in the district area. That seems fair to me.

Okay, one could argue the value of teachers are important. And we should be more selective, and pay them what they are worth (more). I agree. I think we have a lot of underpaid good teachers, and a lot of useless teachers.

I believe in turning highschools into college-style classrooms and paying the teachers accordingly (which would be more).
Because you're using my summers off to say I don't deserve the pay. I'm just giving you another angle to look at this. If you want to count hours, I have that covered too, however, I don't think this should be about hours because even if I did work less, and I don't, I would not be in position to make up the difference so that income cannot be imputed to me. The question is what is my value as a teacher? Is what I do really worth less because the school year is set up with summers off?

Either way you slice it, I don't deserve less pay because of the way the school year is structured. In fact, I'd argue I deserve more. All the extra hours I put in during the school year take a toll on my family that no amount of summers off could undo. My own kids get neglected so I can meet the needs of other people's children (contrary to popular opinoin, this is NOT a family friendly job). If they gave me my drathers, I'd rather have a more sane schedule year round. They didn't give me a choice.
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:02 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,447,336 times
Reputation: 25990
I have no problems with paying teachers more, but I expect more. A longer school day, more days of children in school. We don't need a 3 month break in the summer.

Things need to change. I think our entire educational model needs to be scrapped. It is antiquated, and is not forward thinking.

Sorry, but tracking works, not all kids are Harvard material. Track kids at 7th grade, and pit them inot college bound, or vocational bound tracks. And make junior high and high school actually worthwhile.
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:08 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,122,907 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Because you're using my summers off to say I don't deserve the pay. I'm just giving you another angle to look at this. If you want to count hours, I have that covered too, however, I don't think this should be about hours because even if I did work less, and I don't, I would not be in position to make up the difference so that income cannot be imputed to me. The question is what is my value as a teacher? Is what I do really worth less because the school year is set up with summers off?

Either way you slice it, I don't deserve less pay because of the way the school year is structured. In fact, I'd argue I deserve more. All the extra hours I put in during the school year take a toll on my family that no amount of summers off could undo. My own kids get neglected so I can meet the needs of other people's children (contrary to popular opinoin, this is NOT a family friendly job). If they gave me my drathers, I'd rather have a more sane schedule year round. They didn't give me a choice.
I'm not arguing that you deserve less. All I'm saying is that teachers are paid fairly based on the current system. I've also said that I don't agree with the current system. If it were up to me, certain subjects would be all year round.
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