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Old 12-01-2011, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
really?? -differentiated education, compact curriculum, not having to wait for glue sniffers to catch up, independent study, being able to teach Latin or classical music in elementary, being able to fit education in to 3 hours a day instead of 7 and the rest being *free* to be a child, not being "capped" at a reading level because that is the rule for that grade, not being bored to tears when you don't need to practice simple addition 100 times, not getting exposed to lice or rodents on a daily basis.... I could go on and on....... and i'm not a homeschooler, all my children attend public school. But I can certainly see the advantages..... as I can also see the disadvantages.
I prefer my children learn to function in a community and learn how to figure out how to learn on their own, as opposed to having someone, conveniently, compact the curriculum for them. THEY are not the only beings in this world that count.

Children aren't capped in public school either. Have you read my posts about our, current, issues with our dd because she was allowed to move ahead??? Just because a child can read on a 10th grade level doesn't mean they're ready to learn chemistry (a 10th grade class). My dd has hit a wall. She's almost two years ahead of her peers but can't go any further because she's not ready. We avoided her being bored years ago by having her work ahead only to have her bored now while she waits to develop the skills she needs to move on. Now we're faced with a child who could graduate at 16 but who will not be mature enough for college.

I've come to the conclusion they're better off if we just let them be kids. Had dd not been moved ahead, she would have worked with her peers to help the "glue sniffers" as you so snobbishly call them. I think teaching my kids that they should help others is a good thing. It's not all about them and, IMO, the sooner they learn that the better.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:43 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,325,866 times
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I didn't take "glue sniffers" to be snobbish. I took "glue sniffers" to mean the kids who sniffed glue. Or whatever the heck they find to sniff in an attempt to get high.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0789 View Post
I don't want to get too off topic, but of course you have to squeeze less things between 5:30 and 9 on any given day. That quick trip to the grocery store was done in the day, dinner is already done, kids have eaten early, homework is already checked and packed, mail has been opened, piano lesson/ballet was done in the afternoon, kids have had outside play to unwind, no messages on the voicemail, random errand taking care of.... all that's left to do is have some down time and football practice.
But we don't just have 5:30 to 9:00. With 24 hour super markets, there's nothing to stop us from grocery shopping at 6:00 AM before the kids get out of bed (someone who is getting home at 5:30 is likely working (9:00-5:00). Plus 28% of all days fall on the weekend. We have all 24 hours per day to work with then. What's wrong with shopping on Saturday morning at 10:00? There's no need to run to the store daily anymore. It's not my grandmother's day when all she had was an ice box that, literally, was a box with a block of ice in it.

With school aged children, I see very little difference between being a working mom or a stay at home mom from their perspective. On days I worked, my kids got out of school at 3:30, went to latch key and played with friends for an hour and a half. On days I didn't, they walked home, dropped off their stuff and went and played with friends for an hour and a half. Then we had an hour for homework and then dinner as a family whether I worked that day or not. Dishes are done after dinner whether I worked that day or not. There's really not much difference and being able to run to the grocery store mid day is not worth giving up a career for or asking my family do do without my income for. I think we can manage to shop on Saturday.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
I didn't take "glue sniffers" to be snobbish. I took "glue sniffers" to mean the kids who sniffed glue. Or whatever the heck they find to sniff in an attempt to get high.
It's a derogatory reference to someone considered less than you (or her children in this case). Glue sniffers would be brain damaged or slow. I suppose it could refer to kids getting high but they don't really hold up anyone elses' education. They just fall behind. IMO, a pretty rotten way to refer to a child but I got the impression the children of others are mere obstacles to the OP's golden child's education from her post. Apparently, there is nothing to be learned from the "glue sniffers" such as kindness, helping others or caring....

My kids will go to school with all kinds of kids but I hope they learn from them. If nothing else, learn to help others. I think there is much to be learned in group schooling. Group dynamics for one. Just learning how to work with others how to learn from them and teach them what you know.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-01-2011 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:21 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,140,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Given that part of our jobs as parents is to prepare our kids to leave home and venture out into the real world, I'm not sure that really makes sense. Spending nearly all of your time with family isn't conducive to this end in this culture. It made sense when we were learning skills to run a farm or take over a family business/trade but not today.
I'm not sure why you would think that homeschoolers are unprepared for the real world. Generally speaking, homeschoolers have more opportunities during the week to spend time out and about in the real world, not less. They get plenty of one on one attention from their teacher who has known them from birth. This teacher is aware of their strengths, weaknesses, learning style and interests. This teacher is also someone who loves them deeply and is heavily invested in their education. The student is immersed in and influenced by his or her family's values and less so influenced by his or her peers.

I really can't see any negatives associated with a child having strong ties and close relationships to one's family. Independence is born out of feeling loved and secure in one's relationships.

What is it about school that makes you think that it does a better job of preparing kids for the "real world"?
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I'm not sure why you would think that homeschoolers are unprepared for the real world. Generally speaking, homeschoolers have more opportunities during the week to spend time out and about in the real world, not less. They get plenty of one on one attention from their teacher who has known them from birth. This teacher is aware of their strengths, weaknesses, learning style and interests. This teacher is also someone who loves them deeply and is heavily invested in their education. The student is immersed in and influenced by his or her family's values and less so influenced by his or her peers.

I really can't see any negatives associated with a child having strong ties and close relationships to one's family. Independence is born out of feeling loved and secure in one's relationships.

What is it about school that makes you think that it does a better job of preparing kids for the "real world"?
I doubt homeschooled kids get half the opportuntieis to interact with other kids that kids who go to school get. I think it's important for kids to have a venue that is theirs. Where they figure out how to get along and how to succeed.

I don't think that catering to a child, educationally, teaches them what they need to learn. The most important lesson a teacher can help students learn is how to learn in any environment. I think we're too hung up on one on one time. I think we're crippling our kids with it. All you're doing is teaching your kids that everyone should bend to them but, reality is, the world will expect them to bend.

Kids need to learn how to get what they need in any situation not just one mommy tailored to them. IMO, this just teaches them it's all about them and that everyone else is supposed to make things happen the way they want them to happen. I think it's important for my kids to learn it's not all about them. That they will face situations that they don't like and are not tailored to them and they need to learn to make the best of that. They need to figure out how to get what they need to learn on their own. They need to accept responsibility for their own learning. I don't think me tailoring a program with plenty of one on one time with me as their only teacher is conducive to any of that.


My kids get what homeschooled kids get plus what the schools offer. I consider that a win-win. They have parents who are educated and able to work with them on a one on one basis when they need it and they have teachers who are subject matter experts to learn from in the classroom. They also have peers they can learn from and teach (empathy). I really can't imagine that removing school from the picture would improve their educations. I think school helps prepare kids to break away from their families and go out into the real world and that is our, ultimate, goal for our kids.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-01-2011 at 07:07 PM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:28 PM
 
1,226 posts, read 1,980,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I prefer my children learn to function in a community and learn how to figure out how to learn on their own, as opposed to having someone, conveniently, compact the curriculum for them. THEY are not the only beings in this world that count.

Children aren't capped in public school either. Have you read my posts about our, current, issues with our dd because she was allowed to move ahead??? Just because a child can read on a 10th grade level doesn't mean they're ready to learn chemistry (a 10th grade class). My dd has hit a wall. She's almost two years ahead of her peers but can't go any further because she's not ready. We avoided her being bored years ago by having her work ahead only to have her bored now while she waits to develop the skills she needs to move on. Now we're faced with a child who could graduate at 16 but who will not be mature enough for college.

I've come to the conclusion they're better off if we just let them be kids. Had dd not been moved ahead, she would have worked with her peers to help the "glue sniffers" as you so snobbishly call them. I think teaching my kids that they should help others is a good thing. It's not all about them and, IMO, the sooner they learn that the better.
Yes, I have read your other posts, and frankly, since you bring it up, they leave me rather confused:

-You talk about you hardly see your daughter, and how you describe her as "practically ignored", but you also seem to perfectly manage your time and are at home as much as a SAHM.

-You want your children to be accepting of others and get exposure to others in public school, but you can't be accepting of people that choose to homeschool THEIR children because it is their choice.

-You are against parents homeschooling their children, or even teaching them to read at home, because there is too much one on one time and the teachers should do the teaching. Yet your children have had to deal with phonics tutors to catch up, bad grades, and "hitting walls". So I think you are for helping your children not fail, but against helping them succeed?

-You think parents aren't equipped to teach their own children because they don't have knowledge on all subjects, but you are a chemistry teacher and your daughter is having difficulty with........chemistry???

-You give marriage advice, but don't particularly like your husband, and give parenting advice, as you take your kids to a shrink.

So please, don't open up the pandora box of your other posts, as it leaves me bewildered. I find it amazing that you are the voice of experience and absolute knowledge on all topics, because as soon as you experience something, it becomes a conclusion across the board, it is black and white, no gray. I know many kids that have been grade skipped that have not had any issues or "walls", there's actually great research on how that is one of the best way to serve our gifted population. My child is also able to skip a grade, but we have chosen to opt for subject acceleration for now, as I think that is what is best for her, and we have chosen not to homeschool her, because that is what we think is best for us, and I work, because that is what is best for us. But I don't go around criticizing people that make other choices because they did not fall upon my same "conclusion", I can see the advantages of their situation, and the advantages of mine, as well as admit to the disadvantages.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:33 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,140,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I doubt homeschooled kids get half the opportuntieis to interact with other kids that kids who go to school get. I think it's important for kids to have a venue that is theirs. Where they figure out how to get along and how to succeed.
You may doubt it but I'm telling you that homeschoolers have endless opportunities to interact and socialize with children of all ages as well as adults. I'd venture a guess that they have more opportunities for socialization, not less.

Quote:
I don't think that catering to a child, educationally, teaches them what they need to learn. The most important lesson a teacher can help students learn is how to learn in any environment.
If the teacher, with few exceptions, is confined to his or her classroom, how is he or she better able to teach his or her students how to learn in any environment better then a homeschooler who is not confined to a classroom?

Quote:
I think we're too hung up on one on one time. I think we're crippling our kids with it. All you're doing is teaching your kids that everyone should bend to them but, reality is, the world will expect them to bend. Kids need to learn how to get what they need in any situation not just one mommy tailored to them. IMO, this just teaches them it's all about them and that everyone else is supposed to make things happen the way they want them to happen. I think it's important for my kids to learn it's not all about them. That they will face situations that they don't like and are not tailored to them and they need to learn to make the best of that. They need to figure out how to get what they need to learn on their own. They need to accept responsibility for their own learning. I don't think me tailoring a program with plenty of one on one time with me as their only teacher is conducive to any of that.
You make an awful lot of assumptions here. You're assuming that homeschooling parents cater to their child's every whim and don't bother teaching them things like responsibility, manners, compassion, tolerance, flexibility, independence, etc. From my experience and observation of other homeschoolers, you're way off base.

Quote:
My kids get what homeschooled kids get plus what the schools offer. I consider that a win-win. They have parents who are educated and able to work with them on a one on one basis when they need it and they have teachers who are subject matter experts to learn from in the classroom. They also have peers they can learn from and teach (empathy). I really can't imagine that removing school from the picture would improve their educations. I think school helps prepare kids to break away from their families and go out into the real world and that is our, ultimate, goal for our kids.
I'm happy that you're happy with your children's education. I respect your decision to do what you feel is in your children's best interest. Please be respectful of others who have chosen a different path.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:35 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,237 posts, read 15,033,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Why think about homeschooling? What's the advantage?

There are things I don't like about the public school system but I think my kids are better off because they have been taught by both parents and teachers.

I think our percentage of SAHP's is pretty typical. I don't see the draw to homeschooling. I know of more homeschooling disasters than I do successes. Most people I know who have homeschooled quit and sent their kids back to the public schools.
I honestly do not see any advantage of homeschooling for my son.

After spending some time with the homeschoolers in our town - he thought he would be bored out of his mind and I agree.

I really do not get the attraction to homeschooling - though I realize it is becoming more popular.

Again, my personal experience, and what I have seen ~ has not been good. Education and peer interaction has fallen woefully short.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
I honestly do not see any advantage of homeschooling for my son.

After spending some time with the homeschoolers in our town - he thought he would be bored out of his mind and I agree.

I really do not get the attraction to homeschooling - though I realize it is becoming more popular.

Again, my personal experience, and what I have seen ~ has not been good. Education and peer interaction has fallen woefully short.
I have no attraction either. I see my kids as having the best of both worlds. They have teachers to work with them at school, peers to learn from and teach what they know and they have educated parents to work with them one on one when needed. IMO, homeschooling would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. I see no benefit in eliminating school when my kids get parents anyway. As I said before, my kids get what homeschoolers get plus what they get at school. This is one case where I do think more is better.

My personal experience with homeschoolers is most quit within a couple of years and their kids are no better off for having been homeschooled. In fact, I can name two families where the kids are worse off because mom was uneducated. Unfortunately, uneducated people are often convinced they know things they don't. Also, most seem to homeschool for non academic reasons. The top three are religous reasons, mom doesn't want to get a job and needs an excuse to stay home or the parents want to maintain full control over the children. I've known two families that homeschooled for academic reasons and their kids did poorly while homeschooled and are now back in the public school struggling more than they were before...while the parents blame the school... So add to the cost of homeschooling, the cost of catching up kids like these when they reenter the public school system. If the parents don't know what they are doing, the results will be poor and when homeschooling is a failure, the kids get sent back to the public schools with more issues than when they left.

I have seen one student who was homeschooled well and adjusted to high school well. His parents put him in the charter school I worked at because they wanted him to have a real diploma. However, he was an exceptionally bright student. He would have done well no matter where you put him so I'm not sure you can deduce anything about the quality of his homeschooling. I can see him doing well anywhere he goes. He reminds me of dd#2. She's the kind of student who will bloom where you plant her.

Dd#2 would be bored to tears if I homeschooled her. She LOVES her social life. Dd#1 would be even more of a recluse than she already is if I homeschooled her. She struggles with friendships and school forces her to deal with her peers. Academically, I don't think my kids would do any better/worse if they were homeschooled. They would, likely, spend less time being taught but then they'd be bored the rest of the time and I'm not sure tailoring an education program to a child is really good for the child in the long run. They may come to expect everything to be tailored to them and life does not work that way. (dd#1 is the kind of child who would learn this from having things tailored to her. She NEEDS to be in an environment where things are not tailored to her so she can learn that everything isn't just about her).

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-02-2011 at 06:20 AM..
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