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Old 11-27-2011, 05:58 PM
 
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what I want from teachers is for them to quit whining and teach.

you made your choice and you knew what you were getting. Therefore I assume you chose your career based upon your love of learning and your desire to impart knowledge to the young ones in your care. So I hope you stay with the profession and continue to influence generations to come.

But if you believe you chose poorly, I hope you do find the life that suits you best.
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:46 PM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,097,479 times
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You know who talks about teachers whining about their salary? The non-teachers. Or the teachers when someone else brings up the "generous" perks of being a teacher. Generally the teachers on this forum talk about their work. I know many teachers in my own family and close friends. I've never heard any of them talk about their salary. Generally, salary is not a topic of conversation, period!
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,731,184 times
Reputation: 14499
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
what I want from teachers is for them to quit whining and teach.

you made your choice and you knew what you were getting. Therefore I assume you chose your career based upon your love of learning and your desire to impart knowledge to the young ones in your care. So I hope you stay with the profession and continue to influence generations to come.

But if you believe you chose poorly, I hope you do find the life that suits you best.
Using that logic, no one should ever argue that they are worth more than they are paid. And with that attitude, you will get what you pay for.

What are teachers worth to you? What value do you place on educating children?

I'm one of the few who argues that I'm worth more than I'm paid because I am and it is finances that are driving me out of teaching. Fortunately, I have other options and teachers who don't are a dime a dozen so I'll be replaced, with an equally cheap, teacher in short order.

Ask yourself who will be left once those of us who can earn more in industry have left? You'll have those who don't have to worry about finances and just want to teach and those who don't have other options who may or may not actually want to teach.

I do my job well. I put in 60+ hours per week making sure it's done well. I find it sad that I can go back into industry, double my salary, cut my hours and increase my time off and people like you don't see that this is an issue. Good teachers are leaving because we can't pay our bills.

If it's cheap teachers you want, it's cheap teachers you'll get. Just remember, you get what you pay for.

In my defense, lest you think I make poor choices, I had every reasonable expectation that I'd be at masters plus 30 step 3 by now (I'm at masters zero and plus 30 is being elminated). I had every reasonable expectation that I would have earned $30K more than I did over the past 3 years and that I'd be earning $5K more than I am now. Had things gone the way they told me they would, I'd be in position to send my dd to college. They didn't and I'm not so I'm out. The university was unaware that subject matter experts are not desirable in Michigan. It's the jack of all trades master of none certs that are valuable here. I wish they'd told me that one before I spent 5 years getting a teaching degree. Unfortunately, I believed them when they said they wanted to put subject matter experts in the classroom. They don't. They want teachers who are flexible in what they can teach. Can't say as I blame them. It's only a matter of time before the government changes the emphasis and then what do you do with a bunch of subject matter experts who can't teach anything else?

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-28-2011 at 03:14 AM..
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
8,835 posts, read 14,250,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
what I want from teachers is for them to quit whining and teach.

you made your choice and you knew what you were getting. Therefore I assume you chose your career based upon your love of learning and your desire to impart knowledge to the young ones in your care. So I hope you stay with the profession and continue to influence generations to come.

But if you believe you chose poorly, I hope you do find the life that suits you best.
Gee would you say that about Doctors if they were making what teachers make? (And don't laugh at that, some out there would like to change the medical industry so it is somewhat similar). While I'm sure in that case some doctors would be simply "dedicated", I'd be nervous about trusting my life in someone who is bitter about their pay, etc.......

Just because a job is a "calling" doesn't mean that you should be paid too low.......
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,821 posts, read 39,419,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
You know who talks about teachers whining about their salary? The non-teachers. Or the teachers when someone else brings up the "generous" perks of being a teacher. Generally the teachers on this forum talk about their work. I know many teachers in my own family and close friends. I've never heard any of them talk about their salary. Generally, salary is not a topic of conversation, period!
Hah, so true! I've heard many more people outside of education rant about "teachers always complaining" than I've EVER heard actual teachers actually complaining themselves. Not just about pay (and, truly, I've heard more teachers simply ACKNOWLEDGING that, yeah, they could get paid more doing something else, but that they choose to stay in teaching), but about their jobs in general. People in teaching generally WANT to be in teaching, or they don't stay long. There's no really compelling reason to stay if you hate it.

It also does seem like teaching is the one field (being a minister may be another), where venting about the inevitable crappy day at work is something frowned upon by others. Perhaps this is one root of the "teachers always complaining about their jobs" thing. For whatever reason, expressing frustration with anything regarding your work is something that gets you lambasted, if you work in education.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:22 AM
 
2,115 posts, read 2,712,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
I hear a million college students just applied to their respective college of education for this position...

Now every college grad will want to be a teacher, and with a job description like this who wouldn't!


And since EVERY school is performing at 100%, we have either euthenized the Special education population OR FINALLY FOUND A "CURE" FOR COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT, TBI, DOWN SYDROME, CP, AUTISIM, ETC....

I think that the quality of teachers does have room for improvement, but above all I think systems through which students are graded have to become better.
It's not OK that a lousy student can get good grades in one school and a great student might have to struggle to get a B- in a harder school.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 11-28-2011 at 02:45 PM.. Reason: Removed inappropriate comments
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
8,835 posts, read 14,250,515 times
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Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
I don't get the part about 18-30 year olds transferring wealth to 50-65 year olds. Where I live, most of the school budget comes from real estate taxes, and I'd venture a guess that a far higher percentage of 50-65's own homes than 18-30's.

There are plenty of reasons to have concerns about schools, and bad teachers are one of them. But to put all the blame on teachers while ignoring administrative bureaucracy, political shenanigans, ineffective parenting and societal misunderstandings shows a willful effort to focus on a very narrow part of the story.
I think in that sense the wealth transfer is really more from 35-45 year olds to the older set. What I think the OP is getting is that many in the oldest working generation are getting "perks" that previous generations are never going to get. But I will counter that if you lose your job at 50 or older (sometimes even a little less than that in this economy) there's a good chance you'll never work a "professional", decent-paying job again, which is much less true for the younger generations.

Another good point you make is administrative bureaucracy. A lot of the issues people have with teacher pay and perks as well as with districts over-cutting education are really a function of the far more extreme administrative pay and perks. I honestly think administrative levels should be cut before teachers, and in many cases their pay/perks are really really outlandish.

I know of a small, troubled urban district (population about 50-70,000, will remain unnamed) whose superintendent of schools makes $350K/year, yes $350,000/year! Even most of the "rich" suburbs around it the super doesn't make that (usually about $200-250K, still a bit high). In this same district, I know of a principal of a failing elementary school that makes $175K/year, yes $175K! (and this is a state with a "transparency law" that requires a website that lists what all gov't employees, including teachers/educational administration, etc. made last year and those salaries were up there).

I will credit that this district is using an early retirement incentive on the principal and trying to get someone "cheaper" next year but even that is a bit much and compounds the fiscal problems of today.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:51 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,093,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
You know who talks about teachers whining about their salary? The non-teachers. Or the teachers when someone else brings up the "generous" perks of being a teacher. Generally the teachers on this forum talk about their work. I know many teachers in my own family and close friends. I've never heard any of them talk about their salary. Generally, salary is not a topic of conversation, period!
Agree completely from my experience with kids in school currently.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:14 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,907,200 times
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Originally Posted by myheartisindallas View Post
The OP asked what we want in a teacher, then made every point about money.

How about a teacher who will stop complaining at every turn and actually TEACH our kids? People go into teaching ON THEIR OWN ACCORD. They are not put in a classroom against their will, yet all they do while there is complain about money and lack of respect. THEN DO OUR KIDS A FAVOR AND FIND A DIFFERENT JOB if you are so unhappy. PLEASE.

If teachers would make it about TEACHING, then everything else would fall into place. If they would make it about doing their job and making sure, to the VERY best of their ability, that EVERY child reaches his/her highest potential in their grade and are prepared to move to the next, I would have been a happy parent.

Teaching is the ONLY profession that the highest possible pay is demanded and minimal results are accepted.
It's also the ONLY profession where no matter what you do in the 8 hours can be completely UNDERMINED by what happens in the other 16. The best teacher in the world can't counterbalance the crappiest parents to produce a "well educated" kid.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:03 PM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,424,731 times
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Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
It's also the ONLY profession where no matter what you do in the 8 hours can be completely UNDERMINED by what happens in the other 16. The best teacher in the world can't counterbalance the crappiest parents to produce a "well educated" kid.
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