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Old 11-25-2011, 01:11 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,907,695 times
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What is the profile of a teacher that would satisfy most people? What do you want from teachers?

This is what I gather from the comments of posters and commentators from a variety of sources:

Teacher candidates will be graduates from the top of their class, even in math, science, and foreign language, who are eager to work long hours for low pay and limited benefits.

Teachers will not take part in unions or professional organizations. Teachers' unions can be dissolved or prohibited from engaging in collective bargaining. Teachers who go on strike can be replaced with other top-quality candidates due to the employment crisis.

Tenure will be eliminated. All contracts will be on a year-to-year basis. Some states have been doing this for years.

Contract periods will increase from around 190-200 days per year to 250 days per year with little to no increase in their yearly contract salary. Consequently, schools can increase class size to improve the efficiency of delivery of instruction. This is also a strategy for dealing with the shortage of qualified teachers.

Additionally, the school day will be lengthened for teachers so that meetings and professional development can be added to improve the teachers' quality.

Teachers will not receive any regular increase in salary due to experience or earning advanced degrees. They will be paid based upon the test scores of their students, and those in schools with large numbers of disadvantaged children who score lowest on such assessments will be paid least of all. Teaching in such schools is a calling, and anyone willing to teach there doesn't care about money. Therefore, there is no need to pay them well.

Teachers in economically prosperous districts will receive merit pay based on their students' test results. Districts will be prevented from paying their teachers more just to attract better candidates. This practice only conveys the idea that more money influences teachers to choose better schools. The only incentive for choosing to teach in an affluent district should be the reward of teaching children who are better prepared to excel at school. It's about the teaching, not the money.

Teachers will no longer be able to retire and serve as part-time staff while drawing their pension. Pensions will be eliminated, including for those teachers who had been covered in pension systems. There is precedent for this in private industry. The ability to live on a meager income and still save responsibly for retirement is essential, as retirement plans should be made completely the responsibility of the employee.

Anyone who does not like the pay and working conditions can go to work in the private sector. If they are willing to give up teaching for twice their salary and benefits, and enjoy less stress and a better standard of living, then maybe they weren't cut out to be teachers in the first place. The state of the economy assures that there will still be a steady supply of top graduates that will want to take the positions vacated by those who left.

I'm sure I have omitted more than half of the desirable characteristics that teachers should present, as this list is just off the top of my head. What do you want in a teacher?
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:16 PM
 
455 posts, read 1,080,423 times
Reputation: 430
I think most want teachers to be paid like the private sector.

Good teachers should make more than bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired. If there is a glut of teachers on the market then this oversupply should be reflected in the wages. We need to provide maximum value for the taxpayer.

I say the solution is a voucher system with a very competitive marketplace. Good schools attract more students and make more money. Bad schools go out of business. Then there is a never ending battle to get higher results to attract more students. The incentive for profit is one of the most powerful motivators out there. We should use it in the education sector otherwise we will continue to see dismal results. The cost of these dismal results is too high.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:20 PM
 
15,745 posts, read 13,176,204 times
Reputation: 19636
Quote:
Originally Posted by a34dadsf View Post
I think most want teachers to be paid like the private sector.

Good teachers should make more than bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired. If there is a glut of teachers on the market then this oversupply should be reflected in the wages. We need to provide maximum value for the taxpayer.

I say the solution is a voucher system with a very competitive marketplace. Good schools attract more students and make more money. Bad schools go out of business. Then there is a never ending battle to get higher results to attract more students. The incentive for profit is one of the most powerful motivators out there. We should use it in the education sector otherwise we will continue to see dismal results. The cost of these dismal results is too high.
What happens to special ed kids? Or those who are not inherently gifted?

Because the best way to make a school look good on paper is to be highly selective in who you let in.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:39 PM
 
48 posts, read 92,433 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by a34dadsf View Post
I think most want teachers to be paid like the private sector.

Good teachers should make more than bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired. If there is a glut of teachers on the market then this oversupply should be reflected in the wages. We need to provide maximum value for the taxpayer.

I say the solution is a voucher system with a very competitive marketplace. Good schools attract more students and make more money. Bad schools go out of business. Then there is a never ending battle to get higher results to attract more students. The incentive for profit is one of the most powerful motivators out there. We should use it in the education sector otherwise we will continue to see dismal results. The cost of these dismal results is too high.

There is no evidence that this works in education. The politicians have convinced many that this works though. Do a little research on charters overall and you'll find that they are no better, and in many cases worse than public schools. Private schools can and do cherry pick students so they aren't the solution for all. Too bad schools are forced into an all size fits all model for education. There lies the true problem IMHO.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by a34dadsf View Post
I think most want teachers to be paid like the private sector.

Good teachers should make more than bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired. If there is a glut of teachers on the market then this oversupply should be reflected in the wages. We need to provide maximum value for the taxpayer.

I say the solution is a voucher system with a very competitive marketplace. Good schools attract more students and make more money. Bad schools go out of business. Then there is a never ending battle to get higher results to attract more students. The incentive for profit is one of the most powerful motivators out there. We should use it in the education sector otherwise we will continue to see dismal results. The cost of these dismal results is too high.
I will, gladly, be paid like the private sector when they allow me to do my job like the private sector. In the private sector, you can insure the quality of your product because you can reject any raw materials that arrive at your door that don't meet your specs and because your process is funded well enough to do so. Give me that ability, and I'll deliver results. Until you give me that, don't tell me I should be judged the same way I would be in the private sector.

In industry, you set the standard for your raw materials and reject anything that doesn't fit your specifications. In education, you take everyone that arrives at your door whether the student is high quality or low, whether they can speak English or not, whether they have learning disabilities or not, whether they want to be there or not, whether or not they've had a meal in the last 24 hours or not, whether the parents value education or teach their kids that education is a waste....The day you let me hand pick my raw materials, as I could in industry, is the day you can demand I be paid like I would be in industry!!!

You are correct that good schools will attract good students and they will stay good schools because they attract good students while other schools will decline because the good students are leaving. Do you really think it's fair to penalize the teachers when that happens? People, you need to realize that industry rules don't work in education because education is not industry. It is the teacher in the bad schools who are working the hardest and making the most impact not the teachers in the good schools. The good schools are, in part, good schools because they have good students, who, likely, had the option to have breakfast this morning and, likely, have parents who value education and they're, likely, better funded than the failing schools, etc, etc, etc...
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:19 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,907,695 times
Reputation: 3504
Quote:
Originally Posted by a34dadsf View Post
I think most want teachers to be paid like the private sector.

Good teachers should make more than bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired. If there is a glut of teachers on the market then this oversupply should be reflected in the wages. We need to provide maximum value for the taxpayer.

I say the solution is a voucher system with a very competitive marketplace. Good schools attract more students and make more money. Bad schools go out of business. Then there is a never ending battle to get higher results to attract more students. The incentive for profit is one of the most powerful motivators out there. We should use it in the education sector otherwise we will continue to see dismal results. The cost of these dismal results is too high.
How will you define a good teacher and a bad teacher?

What will you do if there is a teacher shortage? If there are no qualified candidates willing to do the job for the pay offered?

What will happen to the students who attended bad schools that went out of business? What if the population of a given area NEVER gets higher results?

The incentive for profit is often an incentive for cheating among those with the most to gain. How would you ensure that the private sector does not abuse the system?

If market forces drove teacher pay upward, would you support higher salaries?
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:23 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,560 posts, read 22,721,792 times
Reputation: 7625
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
What is the profile of a teacher that would satisfy most people? What do you want from teachers?

This is what I gather from the comments of posters and commentators from a variety of sources:

Teacher candidates will be graduates from the top of their class, even in math, science, and foreign language, who are eager to work long hours for low pay and limited benefits.

Teachers will not take part in unions or professional organizations. Teachers' unions can be dissolved or prohibited from engaging in collective bargaining. Teachers who go on strike can be replaced with other top-quality candidates due to the employment crisis.

Tenure will be eliminated. All contracts will be on a year-to-year basis. Some states have been doing this for years.

Contract periods will increase from around 190-200 days per year to 250 days per year with little to no increase in their yearly contract salary. Consequently, schools can increase class size to improve the efficiency of delivery of instruction. This is also a strategy for dealing with the shortage of qualified teachers.

Additionally, the school day will be lengthened for teachers so that meetings and professional development can be added to improve the teachers' quality.

Teachers will not receive any regular increase in salary due to experience or earning advanced degrees. They will be paid based upon the test scores of their students, and those in schools with large numbers of disadvantaged children who score lowest on such assessments will be paid least of all. Teaching in such schools is a calling, and anyone willing to teach there doesn't care about money. Therefore, there is no need to pay them well.

Teachers in economically prosperous districts will receive merit pay based on their students' test results. Districts will be prevented from paying their teachers more just to attract better candidates. This practice only conveys the idea that more money influences teachers to choose better schools. The only incentive for choosing to teach in an affluent district should be the reward of teaching children who are better prepared to excel at school. It's about the teaching, not the money.

Teachers will no longer be able to retire and serve as part-time staff while drawing their pension. Pensions will be eliminated, including for those teachers who had been covered in pension systems. There is precedent for this in private industry. The ability to live on a meager income and still save responsibly for retirement is essential, as retirement plans should be made completely the responsibility of the employee.

Anyone who does not like the pay and working conditions can go to work in the private sector. If they are willing to give up teaching for twice their salary and benefits, and enjoy less stress and a better standard of living, then maybe they weren't cut out to be teachers in the first place. The state of the economy assures that there will still be a steady supply of top graduates that will want to take the positions vacated by those who left.

I'm sure I have omitted more than half of the desirable characteristics that teachers should present, as this list is just off the top of my head. What do you want in a teacher?

I hear a million college students just applied to their respective college of education for this position...

Now every college grad will want to be a teacher, and with a job description like this who wouldn't!


And since EVERY school is performing at 100%, we have either euthenized the Special education population OR FINALLY FOUND A "CURE" FOR COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT, TBI, DOWN SYDROME, CP, AUTISIM, ETC....

Is it any wonder these guidelines haven'y already been adopted? What are we waiting for?

Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 11-26-2011 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:34 AM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,907,695 times
Reputation: 3504
My question is what the general public wants from teachers, not what teachers want from the public. You helped clarify that. Can you add what you want their educational preparation to be? I'm happy to steer the discussion away from compensation to other qualities that people want in teachers.

As for me, I personally don't have a problem with being underpaid. My children do. One of them has decided to become a doctor so she will have money. She resented me for teaching instead of making more money like her friends' parents.

I chose to teach the poor. I'm answering a calling, like many others in inner-city schools. I am very fulfilled in my job, but I am concerned about retirement, as I've never earned enough in 26 years to get past the paycheck-to-paycheck stage. These days, I've decided that I will do as my mother is doing, still working full-time at age 78. I don't really expect to be able to retire.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 12-07-2011 at 09:32 PM.. Reason: Removed orphaned quote
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
So you want teachers who willing accept being poor and disrespected? What if the best ability of these teachers is such that they cannot help every child reach his/her highest potential?

My question is what the general public wants from teachers, not what teachers want from the public. You helped clarify that. Can you add what you want their educational preparation to be? I'm happy to steer the discussion away from compensation to other qualities that people want in teachers.

As for me, I personally don't have a problem with being underpaid. My children do. One of them has decided to become a doctor so she will have money. She resented me for teaching instead of making more money like her friends' parents.

I chose to teach the poor. I'm answering a calling, like many others in inner-city schools. I am very fulfilled in my job, but I am concerned about retirement, as I've never earned enough in 26 years to get past the paycheck-to-paycheck stage. These days, I've decided that I will do as my mother is doing, still working full-time at age 78. I don't really expect to be able to retire.
My dd has done the same thing. She really wants to be a teacher but has decided to go to med school because she doesn't want to be broke. Both of my kids have expressed that they wish I'd stayed in engineering. I find it very sad that the children of teachers feel this way. I find it amazing that other parents think my kids should do without so I can teach their kids. It's high time I became as selfish as them and took care of my own.

Like you, I don't mind being broke but as I face not being able to send my kids to college, money is increasing in importance.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,361,269 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
So you want teachers who willing accept being poor and disrespected? What if the best ability of these teachers is such that they cannot help every child reach his/her highest potential?
More importantly, who is determining what the student potential is and whether or not it's been met in a given classroom year? And, relatedly, what about the cases in which the parental expectation of the child reaching his or her highest potential is not realistic or possible for a given child? Where's the measurability for this particular bit of criteria?
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