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Old 12-03-2011, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Bad idea....



I agree---the test also costs money--does the school pay for that? None of our 30 AP offerings at our high school require any of the students to take the test. You see mostly freshman, sophomore and juniors taking the AP tests and only the seniors that know the schools they will attend accept credit or placement otherwise it isn't worth taking the test. Our kids won't take any AP tests in their intended majors because none of the schools they are looking at will accept AP test scores in place of the 100 level courses in their majors so there is no point in taking the test. The only reason TO take the test is for college credit, period.

How do they deal with graduation if you have these grades based on the AP test score when they don't get those scores until halfway through the summer--do they take back their graduation if they don't pass?? Do they have to skip college in the fall so they can retake your class?? Also, if that is their final, what do they do for the other month and a half of school?? Also, 3 is considered "passing" so you are saying that 100% of your kids are getting 4's and 5's?
I have an explanation of what our school does. Our kids have to get at least 3 on the exam to get AP credit for the class. If they do not take the exam, or they get below a 3 they get Honors credit for the class.

At our school you get an additional 1 GPA point for an honors class and an additional 2 GPA points for an AP class (for purposes of weighted GPA). So kids don't fail the class for simply not taking the AP exam, but they do not get AP credit for it on their transcript, nor do they get AP weighting on the GPA.

At our school (private college prep) kids need to have prerequisties AND teacher recommendations for all AP classes. Most kids who take AP classes take the AP exams. Most kids who take the AP exams get 4s or 5s but there are only a few sections of most AP classes.

 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
Reputation: 14495
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Bad idea....



I agree---the test also costs money--does the school pay for that? None of our 30 AP offerings at our high school require any of the students to take the test. You see mostly freshman, sophomore and juniors taking the AP tests and only the seniors that know the schools they will attend accept credit or placement otherwise it isn't worth taking the test. Our kids won't take any AP tests in their intended majors because none of the schools they are looking at will accept AP test scores in place of the 100 level courses in their majors so there is no point in taking the test. The only reason TO take the test is for college credit, period.

How do they deal with graduation if you have these grades based on the AP test score when they don't get those scores until halfway through the summer--do they take back their graduation if they don't pass?? Do they have to skip college in the fall so they can retake your class?? Also, if that is their final, what do they do for the other month and a half of school?? Also, 3 is considered "passing" so you are saying that 100% of your kids are getting 4's and 5's?
Why is it a bad idea to expect kids who take an AP class to actually take the AP test? If they really are AP material, it will show in their test score. Sounds like you're just having kids take the class to take the class and then not expecting them to demonstrate they actually know the material. Sounds like dummying down to me.

I'm not sure how they handle seniors taking AP classes. I'd guess that some kind of special consideration would be given because they are seniors. They'd need a grade before graduation.

I only know the scores for last year and, yes, 100% of the kids who took the AP exam scored high enough to get college credit if it's given at the university they transfer to. These kids are very competitive and know going in they have to take the exam.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-03-2011 at 03:28 PM..
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
In our state the post secondary classes--and books--are 100% free for any junior or senior that is in "good standing" with their high school--as is the case in almost every state that offers that program. Most states do not pick up the cost of books though and most states those classes are at a community college, here they are in a 4 year college which is why the credits transfer. Most better colleges, non-state colleges, do NOT take community college credit transfers either from a post-secondary option or from a regular transfer student. Call them and ask....


There are 14 classes that the University of MN teaches at our high school alone. They are the exact same class taught on the university campus but they are taught either by teachers in our high school that have PhD's and have been certified by the University to teach those classes or they are taught by some of the faculty from the U. They are also free to the high school students and they are taught at our high school (and many others around the state) because there are enough kids that take the to make it worthwhile.

Yep- here too. A friend of DD's (who graduated last year) is a Spanish major, so he took all of the classes our HS offers in conjunction with a four year university. I believe he graduated with about six semesters worth of college Spanish...
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:33 PM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,373,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Why is it a bad idea to expect kids who take an AP class to actually take the AP test? If they really are AP material, it will show in their test score. Sounds like you're just having kids take the class to take the class and then not expecting them to demonstrate they actually know the material. Sounds like dummying down to me.

I'm not sure how they handle seniors taking AP classes. I'd guess that some kind of special consideration would be given because they are seniors. They'd need a grade before graduation.

I only know the scores for last year and, yes, 100% of the kids who took the AP exam scored high enough to get college credit if it's given at the university they transfer to. These kids are very competitive and know going in they have to take the exam.
Kids can demonstrate knowledge in the class itself. Again, the test is ONLY for getting college credit/placement. If you are holding kids back from taking challenging classes you are also retarding their learning.

You are the one that is complaining constantly about how you can't get enough kids to take your AP classes and how lazy your students are....can't you see that your school is not a very good school and there ARE better schools out there. Didn't you say you had 6 kids in your AP Chem class, SIX?? out of 5000 students .
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
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The point, however, has been made. Supposedly, "college level" courses are typical for most of your college bound freshmen so they really aren't college level courses, are they? What makes a college level course a college level course is that they are taken by college level students not 9th graders . A class that is, typically, taken by 9th graders is a 9th grade course. While I do believe there are a few students capable of college level work in high school, when you start claiming this is the norm, you're not talking college level work at all. You're not even asking your students to take the exam (but you still want to throw around exam scores is if that means something when the exam was optional ). If they're so good, why not ask them to prove themselves and take the exam???? What are you afraid of?
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,708,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower View Post
Yep- here too. A friend of DD's (who graduated last year) is a Spanish major, so he took all of the classes our HS offers in conjunction with a four year university. I believe he graduated with about six semesters worth of college Spanish...

Again, more proof that college has been dummied down to the high school level.

When I was in high school, it was unheard of for someone to have college credits before graduating from high school but high school was actually high school back then....Now it appears it's middle school...

As a teacher, I do believe that we've dummied down high school and college. I don't get to topics that I learned in high school. Back when I was in school, it was sink or swim. The class kept going. Now with NCLB we have to slow down so that everyone passes. That means that whole topics are not taught and there's nothing I can do about it because I, simply, run out of time. I need 36 weeks just to teach my content. With a 39 week school year by the time you factor in holidays, snow days, half days and the odd pep assembly, I'm short on time before I even start. When I was in school, it was all taught and the students just had to keep up.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:40 PM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,716,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The point, however, has been made. Supposedly, "college level" courses are typical for most of your college bound freshmen so they really aren't college level courses, are they? What makes a college level course a college level course is that they are taken by college level students not 9th graders . A class that is, typically, taken by 9th graders is a 9th grade course.
At our school AP courses for 9th graders are not considered typical. Only AP Human Geography and even that is not taken by most freshmen.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,114 posts, read 39,184,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Why is it a bad idea to expect kids who take an AP class to actually take the AP test? If they really are AP material, it will show in their test score. Sounds like you're just having kids take the class to take the class and then not expecting them to demonstrate they actually know the material. Sounds like dummying down to me.

It's not dummying down, the grade in the class should show mastery not the test in May.

My system requires all students enrolled in an AP class to take the test (system pays, @ $800K last year). Originally when that was implemented the idea was that teachers would suffer no penalty for scores, it was to expose the students. That's changed, Principals are now moving teachers in and out of the classes like Monopoly pieces with no appreciable change in scores. One reason I got out of teaching AP and into AP Coordinator. One year scores would be good, other years not so much.

Our students do get a weighted grade for AP classes.

I'm not sure how they handle seniors taking AP classes. I'd guess that some kind of special consideration would be given because they are seniors. They'd need a grade before graduation.

I only know the scores for last year and, yes, 100% of the kids who took the AP exam scored high enough to get college credit if it's given at the university they transfer to. These kids are very competitive and know going in they have to take the exam.
On AP Chem. They might as well have a warm body teaching it than offer it on-line. The CollegeBoard AP Chem required syllabus requires 18 to 22 labs for the course, which still have to be organized and taught by the in-school Chem teacher.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:42 PM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,373,875 times
Reputation: 10471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The point, however, has been made. Supposedly, "college level" courses are typical for most of your college bound freshmen so they really aren't college level courses, are they? What makes a college level course a college level course is that they are taken by college level students not 9th graders . A class that is, typically, taken by 9th graders is a 9th grade course.
Take out the word "typical"--they are obviously not "typical" if your school only lets 3 kids into the AP/Post secondary classes. The classes kids take here are still college level classes, taught from college text books by AP teachers. They are not easy classes, but the brighter kids prefer the challenge. Honestly, when I was in college, the 100 US history class that is the same as the AP US History class our kids took as sophomores was an EASY class in college, not so easy for high school sophomores though. I am sure your 100 level math class in college was easy for you too, correct?

Even in college you get a wide range of abilities and a lot of the 100 level classes are review for many kids--which is why college offer higher placement for kids that score well on the AP test--or CLEP tests--it puts them with their ability groups not their age groups.

My husband had a VERY tough high school Spanish teacher. He tested out of 3 1/2 years of college Spanish going into college. He needed to take 2 conversation courses in college to get a Spanish major, so he did. Does that mean the high school Spanish classes he took were dumbed down or were they just more challenging so they pushed kids harder and got them further along??
 
Old 12-03-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,114 posts, read 39,184,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
On AP Chem. They might as well have a warm body teaching it than offer it on-line. The CollegeBoard AP Chem required syllabus requires 18 to 22 labs for the course, which still have to be organized and taught by the in-school Chem teacher.

I also wanted to say in regards to mandating the test: What happened to taking a class just because you wanted to and liked it and not for an arbitrary test score or possible advantage?
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