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Old 12-03-2011, 04:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
They don't so much "support" but "encourage". With money. And yes, Gates and Broad will support both. Interesting thing about IB, colleges here don't like the program and won't give any credit for it.
Most colleges we have looked at treat AP and IB the same--so if they give credit for AP, they usually give it for IB but most schools don't give credit, just placement, for either.

 
Old 12-03-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
If your dd wants to go to an elite school she is better off taking AP classes. We have been told by admissions officers that AP classes are preferred to CC classes because with an AP exam they know what was taught, and what the kids mastered.

AP classes are considered more rigorous than CC classes and most elite colleges consider the rigor of an applicant's academic record very strongly for admissions.

They also know what is taught at the CC's and how the classes compare. My own transfer was seamless.

Do you not get that there is money on the line for the 4 year universities? It's to their advantage to steer you the direction that gets them the most $$. It's more likely a CC course will transfer for credit. AP courses they can waive for credit and still collect the same amount of money. When there's money involved, don't believe everything you're told.

With the high percentage of students you have taking AP classes, I doubt they're more rigorous than CC classes. They're, likely, akin to taking the actual high school course 50 years ago.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower View Post
I am also shocked that AP Chem is being offered online- that seems like it'd be disastrous. Mine says she does labs often in the class, and I fail to see how an online course could do that
I am on my second child taking AP Chem and it seems like there are constant labs!
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
They also know what is taught at the CC's and how the classes compare. My own transfer was seamless.

Do you not get that there is money on the line for the 4 year universities? It's to their advantage to steer you the direction that gets them the most $$. It's more likely a CC course will transfer for credit. AP courses they can waive for credit and still collect the same amount of money. When there's money involved, don't believe everything you're told.

With the high percentage of students you have taking AP classes, I doubt they're more rigorous than CC classes. They're, likely, akin to taking the actual high school course 50 years ago.
You are comparing your CC experience from 50 years ago too. Like I have said, and many others, CALL the admissions reps at potential schools for your daughter and ASK THEM. They will tell you the same thing you are hearing here, AP is better then CC but an actual 4 year college level course is better then AP....or, you can just ignore all of us and your DD will find out when she tries to transfer those credits down the road.

Yes, there is money down on the line but I fail to see why a college would take CC credits and not AP credits for the very same reason. If a college accepts CC credits, they will accept AP credits. It's the schools that don't take either that you need to be concerned with.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
They also know what is taught at the CC's and how the classes compare. My own transfer was seamless.

Do you not get that there is money on the line for the 4 year universities? It's to their advantage to steer you the direction that gets them the most $$. It's more likely a CC course will transfer for credit. AP courses they can waive for credit and still collect the same amount of money. When there's money involved, don't believe everything you're told.
It doesn't matter WHY they consider AP classes as more desirable. If the schools are looking for AP and your dd is competing for the most prestigious schools they want to see AP, not CC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
With the high percentage of students you have taking AP classes, I doubt they're more rigorous than CC classes. They're, likely, akin to taking the actual high school course 50 years ago.
We do not have a high percentage taking AP classes at our school. A high percentage of the kids who take AP classes at our school score highly but it is hard to get into the classes. In fact, my son had an A in honors in English and was not recommended for AP English.

I am pretty sure that the curriculum for AP Calculus and AP Physics haven't changed since I took them in 1983. They haven't been dumbed down as far as I can tell. There are no freshmen taking AP Physics or AP Calculus at our school. There may be a handful of juniors but the classes are taken by mostly seniors applying to the most prestigious colleges in the country.

It's THEIR game you are playing when it comes to college admissions. Your dd needs to play by THEIR rules if she wants to get in. If she wants to go to your average State U she will be fine with CC classes. There is NOTHING WRONG with going to State U, its just something to keep in mind if she has other aspirations.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I am on my second child taking AP Chem and it seems like there are constant labs!
Our twins have already gone through one lab notebook (the carbon copy 'fancy' ones) and we just finished the first trimester.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
You are comparing your CC experience from 50 years ago too. Like I have said, and many others, CALL the admissions reps at potential schools for your daughter and ASK THEM. They will tell you the same thing you are hearing here, AP is better then CC but an actual 4 year college level course is better then AP....or, you can just ignore all of us and your DD will find out when she tries to transfer those credits down the road.

Yes, there is money down on the line but I fail to see why a college would take CC credits and not AP credits for the very same reason. If a college accepts CC credits, they will accept AP credits. It's the schools that don't take either that you need to be concerned with.
We attended admissions presentations at:

Bowdoin
Tufts
Williams
Amherst
Hamilton
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Denison
Case Western
U of Chicago

These particular schools mention wanting to see AP CLASSES. They specifically mentioned that AP and IB are preferred over dual enrollment. They said that if dual enrollment are the only advanced classes available then take them but if you have a chance to take IB/AP those are the classes you should take.

It may not be true for every school in the US, but I heard it at a number of the schools listed above (mostly small liberal arts colleges and universities).
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
We attended admissions presentations at:

Bowdoin
Tufts
Williams
Amherst
Hamilton
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Denison
Case Western
U of Chicago

These particular schools mention wanting to see AP CLASSES. They specifically mentioned that AP and IB are preferred over dual enrollment. They said that if dual enrollment are the only advanced classes available then take them but if you have a chance to take IB/AP those are the classes you should take.

It may not be true for every school in the US, but I heard it at a number of the schools listed above (mostly small liberal arts colleges and universities).
That is what we have heard as well. When we have specifically asked about the dual enrollment from our state, since it is with the U of MN and not CC's, they have said that they would consider the transfer depending on the exact courses but it wasn't a guarantee. They ALL want to see the AP classes and they really care less about the test scores since those are never included on the actual applications for college. In our school the CIS classes are considered the most rigorous for the college bound seniors since most of them have taken the AP classes and this would be the next level for them-at least for those going on to more selective schools, not so much the state schools, etc.

The school that is top on our DD's list just taking the AP classes will be "enough" for her to get in. Her grades and test scores are fine so that won't be an issue. DS wants to go to Notre Dame--his classes, GPA, test scores are fine but they have 25,000 applicants for 6000 spots--crap shoot. The kids that have gone there from our school have done well so that helps too. DS's safety school is actually his #2 choice because they have a good program in his major and he likes the campus, etc. He will have zero issues getting in there. His other schools, same thing, no issues getting in. Not sure if he will add more to his choices or not. DD is still looking-mainly because she has the golf thing going too.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: WI
2,820 posts, read 3,062,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
They also know what is taught at the CC's and how the classes compare. My own transfer was seamless.

Do you not get that there is money on the line for the 4 year universities? It's to their advantage to steer you the direction that gets them the most $$. It's more likely a CC course will transfer for credit. AP courses they can waive for credit and still collect the same amount of money. When there's money involved, don't believe everything you're told.

With the high percentage of students you have taking AP classes, I doubt they're more rigorous than CC classes. They're, likely, akin to taking the actual high school course 50 years ago.
Again, many people have seniors and older, and have been through the college applications process in the past five years. Not sure how old you are, but I'm going to assume you graduated high school over 20 years ago. Your experience is different, as times have changed. The prestigious universities would rather see AP or college level (NOT CC, actual universities) courses being taken than CC courses. That is a known fact.

In addition to that, my daughter is a junior and we've talked with admissions officers from Marquette, UW-Madison, Notre Dame, St. Thomas in MN, Northwestern, Iowa, U of MN (and a few others) and ALL of them (and keep in mind that these aren't even the most prestigious schools in the nation) have said any kid planning to apply to their school, or ANY other four year college should have at least one AP or high school cooperative program with four year university class under their belt. DD took Microsoft class her freshman year from a CC college and we asked about that- the majority said that taking CC classes aren't in their criteria of whether or not they accept a student or not.
 
Old 12-03-2011, 05:45 PM
 
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The AP vs. CC classes is a bit complicated. In general, private colleges prefer students to take AP classes because they are supposed to be covering the same information and the end year test is the same. They are also supposed to be the same rigor as a college class. (The last sentence is the one that has me in a quandary - are all college classes hard? I don't think so) According to this: AP Central - AP Teacher Standards it's recommended that the teachers are above avg. Or at least that's my take on this. It's true that the scores generally don't have anything to do with the college applications BUT many HS do put the scores on the transcripts that they send to the colleges. My son's HS does not, but it has been discussed.

CC classes are great IMHO if the student is planning to go to an in-state public college and I think in reality, the content may be as good or even better then an AP class. Unfortunately, CC's are not created equal and it's very iffy if a private college, especially one out of state will take the credit for a CC class. There's a thread here Many if not most Community College students are not worth a dam! where this point is being discussed.

What I've found from my three kids is that colleges will take the classes they want to take. My youngest son's college only took a few of his classes that were supposedly college transferable including 5 AP's, a class from a CC and one from Penn State, taken at a local campus. Who knows when the kids are in HS where they are going and what that future college will take?

IMHO, the best route is to have your child take the hardest classes they can do well in with the teachers that do the best job teaching the material. Have them go with their interests over how it looks on paper, and don't count on classes being "for sure" counted for college.
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