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This is a testimony to how badly we've dummied down education. 50 years ago, most college bound freshmen wouldn't have been capable of taking a class for college credit and they shouldn't have been. College was college back then. Now it's just an extension of high school. That 9th graders are, routinely, taking classes for college credit is really egg on our faces. It shows the world just how easy college has become here.
Seriously, what percentage of college bound students should be capable of taking a college level class (that's what AP is supposed to be) a full 4 years before they're old enough to go to college? Have college level classes really been dummied down to the point that most college bound freshmen are capable of taking them at the age of 13 or 14? No wonder this country is failing.
Ivorytickler,
Keep in mind that some colleges do not give credit for AP classes no matter what you score on the AP exam. Typically, the better the school, the more restrictive they are about AP credit, testing out of courses and taking classes for credit at community colleges during the summer.
The kids aren't accelerated if it's typical for a college bound 9th grader.... It's TYPICAL of a college bound 9th grader!!!! You said that MOST college bound 9th graders are capable of AP classes. That makes AP classes classes that MOST college bound 9th graders are capable of taking in 9th grade. That makes it typical!!!!
You aren't talking about a select few (like my dd and the other two kids who are on track to graduate with up to 2 years of college done in our district of over 5000 high school students). You're talking what MOST college bound 9th graders are capable of. My dd and the other two students (in her "grade" - our district identifies 2-3 kids in every grade capable of this program)) won't be taking AP classes. They will be bussed to the local community college for classes. I'm starting to understand why. AP, apparently, is what most college bound students can do at whatever age. These kids need college classes.
So 3 kids in her grade will take the post-secondary option, here at least 1/2 of the college bound kids take the post-secondary option, taking class through the University of Minnesota, not the community college system and ALL of the college bound kids take AP classes. Most of the kids that are going on to college graduate with several college credits, often at least a year's worth. Probably 1/4th of the kids graduate with at least one year but close to two years. These are kids that are going on to top schools, Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, Stanford, etc. too. This is NOT uncommon in districts with good schools across the nation. What IS uncommon is that your school is so restricted in how many kids they allow in the program.
Earlier this week, my 8th grader brought home a scheduling form for next year, her freshman year of high school. One thing that stood out to me is that freshmen are given the option to take AP Human Geography, as opposed to Civics and Geography, which has been the only option in the past for the required 9th grade social studies credit.
My daughter is considering taking the course as she's very studious, reads often, and is good at taking notes, as well as having an interest in social studies. However, I am not so sure it's necessarily a good idea for a freshman to be taking AP classes. My older daughter has taken several AP courses (AP Psych and APES, is currently enrolled in AP Chemistry and AP Government and Politics, and will be in AP Stats and AP English Lit next semester- our HS is block scheduled) but of course, the content and difficulty these courses offer varies greatly. For example, she says AP Chem is hands down, the hardest class she's ever been in, which is evidenced by her constant studying. On the other hand, she says AP Psych wasn't extremely difficult- obviously it's more work than say, shop class for example, but it didn't provide her with the level of difficulty AP Chem has given her. Granted, her opinion is probably different than some others, but in talking with other parents and students, many people agree. Plus, she was never in an AP class until the second semester of her sophomore year so she had plenty of maturing time between the switch from middle to high school and being in an AP class.
So, my question is this: does anyone have experience with the AP Human Geo class, and what are your thoughts on freshmen taking AP courses?
My middle son took AP Human Geo as a freshman. I agree with what you say about AP classes varying in difficulty. I didn't think AP Human had an excessive amount of work. My son got a 4 on the exam as a freshman. He is not that studious.
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AP Human Geography is one of the easiest AP's and since it is offered to Freshmen, she obviously won't be the only one in the class. If she is as studious and on the ball as you say she is, she should be able to handle the work very easily. A lot of the questions are common sense and the class was so easy at my school that they had to get rid of it.
Most of the kids that are going on to college graduate with several college credits, often at least a year's worth. Probably 1/4th of the kids graduate with at least one year but close to two years. These are kids that are going on to top schools, Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, Stanford, etc. too.
Take a look at the Advanced Placement Policies for some of the top schools. I don't see how anyone could enter any of these schools with a years worth of credits. Cornell states "you are allowed 15 credits from AP/pre‐college and In Absentia combined."
Take a look at the Advanced Placement Policies for some of the top schools. I don't see how anyone could enter any of these schools with a years worth of credits. Cornell states "you are allowed 15 credits from AP/pre‐college and In Absentia combined."
They don't with the AP classes but the post-secondary classes they have taken do count, in most cases since they are classes from a 4 year university--that is where they get the credits. Add that to the higher placement in classes and they can get through school a little faster or get a couple majors in 4 years like most of them are doing. 15 Ap credits is a full semester, add in several college level classes, not AP, and there is your year or two of credits. Usually the kids that go post-secondary full time vs taking the University classes offered at our school, end up going on to the U of MN or U of WI system with full credit transfer--with the goal of getting out as fast as possible. The kids that take the college classes offered at our high school (taught by University professors at our school vs having the kids drive over to the U), want to be "in" high school and "in" college so their goal is mainly to have some credits so they can take more classes in college.
To my experience, putting children in AP was more to bring kudos to the high school than whether the children were ready or even needed the AP class. Especially freshman.
So 3 kids in her grade will take the post-secondary option, here at least 1/2 of the college bound kids take the post-secondary option, taking class through the University of Minnesota, not the community college system and ALL of the college bound kids take AP classes. Most of the kids that are going on to college graduate with several college credits, often at least a year's worth. Probably 1/4th of the kids graduate with at least one year but close to two years. These are kids that are going on to top schools, Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, Stanford, etc. too. This is NOT uncommon in districts with good schools across the nation. What IS uncommon is that your school is so restricted in how many kids they allow in the program.
Thanks for making my point. You are showing over and over that "most" kids in high school can do college work which means that college work is really on a high school level where you live.
If half of your 9th graders are capable of doing college level work, then college level work is really just advanced 9th grade work. That's pretty sad.
Dd is one of three students who has the option of getting her high school diploma at the community college. If she chooses this option, she'll have two years of college finished the day she gets her diploma. It's a very high honor to be chosen for this program.
College must be really dumbed down for half of your college bound kids to be capable of college level work in 9th grade. No wonder this country is sinking. I don't believe for one second that half of your college bound students are THAT bright. It's far more plausible that college and AP classes have been dummied down to accommodate parents who want their kids in those classes before they're ready.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-03-2011 at 02:33 PM..
Thanks for making my point. You are showing over and over that "most" kids in high school can do college work which means that college work is really on a high school level.
So you have dumbed down your AP Chemistry classes for your high school kids??
Earlier this week, my 8th grader brought home a scheduling form for next year, her freshman year of high school. One thing that stood out to me is that freshmen are given the option to take AP Human Geography, as opposed to Civics and Geography, which has been the only option in the past for the required 9th grade social studies credit.
My daughter is considering taking the course as she's very studious, reads often, and is good at taking notes, as well as having an interest in social studies. However, I am not so sure it's necessarily a good idea for a freshman to be taking AP classes. My older daughter has taken several AP courses (AP Psych and APES, is currently enrolled in AP Chemistry and AP Government and Politics, and will be in AP Stats and AP English Lit next semester- our HS is block scheduled) but of course, the content and difficulty these courses offer varies greatly. For example, she says AP Chem is hands down, the hardest class she's ever been in, which is evidenced by her constant studying. On the other hand, she says AP Psych wasn't extremely difficult- obviously it's more work than say, shop class for example, but it didn't provide her with the level of difficulty AP Chem has given her. Granted, her opinion is probably different than some others, but in talking with other parents and students, many people agree. Plus, she was never in an AP class until the second semester of her sophomore year so she had plenty of maturing time between the switch from middle to high school and being in an AP class.
So, my question is this: does anyone have experience with the AP Human Geo class, and what are your thoughts on freshmen taking AP courses?
Golfgal is saying that kids now take more AP's because they are smarter and challenging themselves more. Ivorytickler is saying that the AP's are being watered down and the proof is that more kids are taking them. Are we all clear that you two don't agree on this issue? I don't think there's much point in saying it a few more times.....
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It's TYPICAL of a college bound 9th grader!!!! You said that MOST college bound 9th graders are capable of AP classes. That makes AP classes classes that MOST college bound 9th graders are capable of taking in 9th grade. That makes it typical!!!!
