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Old 12-12-2011, 12:44 PM
 
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in your district, IEP's better not be implemented without due process if a parent does not sign them...in my case, the SPED teacher changed all kinds of things in my son's IEP, without consulting me, including a change in placement...I did not even get a call, let alone changing the IEP...

Last edited by jasper12; 12-12-2011 at 12:46 PM.. Reason: edit
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,702,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatRoy1 View Post
During the holiday phone calls with the nieces who are raising kids, they described public school classrooms filled with Spanish speaking students who are in the classroom for language immersion, with students who have been bussed in for diversity so that no school in the district has primarily low income/low performing students, with students with a variety of behavior problems. Obviously, they don't know who the SpEd students are, but strongly suspect based on the behavior, treatment by the teachers, and their children's take on the situation.

Out of a dozen students across the country in grades from kindergarten through high school, only two of the kids are still in public school. The rest are either homeschooled or in enrolled in private and charter schools.

Is his the future of public schools?
Yes, there's a future. Parents who send their child to charter schools soon figure out they're no better than the school they left or leave them as soon as the need no longer exists.

My kids were in a charter school because our school district adopted Everyday Mathematics, which only goes though 6th grade. I had no need for the charter school past 6th grade and the high school is no better than our local school so it was not worth the inconvenience of driving my kids and they liked being in a neighborhood school. Dd#2 has since moved to the school I teach in but that's because it's a much better school.

Charter schools are only the answer if they serve a particular need not being met in the public school or if they are actually better than the public schools. Most aren't.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:34 PM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,833,735 times
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
FTR, the chem class I teach with 12 SpEd kids isn't college prep, however, it's held to the same standards the state has for college prep chemistry. Michigan "raised the bar" by requiring all kids take chemistry or physics. Unfortunately, not all kids are cut out for chemistry or physics (physics is a better fit for SpEd kids IMO as it's less abstract and can be taught with technology to do the math for them.). Michigan pushes Chem for All because there aren't enough physics teachers to go around. So, I have two levels of chemistry. 2/3 of our students take college prep chemistry. The other 1/3 take consumer chemistry. Consumer chemistry is watered down. I go light on the math and don't go into any of the topics not considered power standards.

The frog noise game is one that drives me nuts. There's something about my room that makes it difficult to tell, exactly, where a sound is coming from and, of course, they don't do it if you're standing right over them. Someone else in the room will. I threatened to give the entire room detention during the last test and will, likely, have to follow through during the next one. They know I have a hard time figuring out who is doing it and my coteacher is not in the room when they're doing this because she's reading tests to the kids who need theirs read to them.
Physics is less abstract than Chemistry? That wasn't my experience. A good college prep course in physics requires calculus (sometimes kids take this along with the physics course, but really a good understanding prior to taking physics is much better).
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Physics is less abstract than Chemistry? That wasn't my experience. A good college prep course in physics requires calculus (sometimes kids take this along with the physics course, but really a good understanding prior to taking physics is much better).
HUH??? Watching a ball bounce is way less abstract than visualizing molecular orbitals and shapes of molecules. You can experience physics. You can't chemistry. In physics, you drop something it falls, you swing a pendulum and it swings back, you can test centripital force, you can construct circuits and test resistance..... In chemistry, you mix test tube A with test tube B, it turns white and gets hot and you have no clue as to why. Chemistry is way more abstract than physics.

Physics you can discover. It can be taught as inquiry. Chemistry has to be explained in painstaking detail.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
in your district, IEP's better not be implemented without due process if a parent does not sign them...in my case, the SPED teacher changed all kinds of things in my son's IEP, without consulting me, including a change in placement...I did not even get a call, let alone changing the IEP...
As long as it is not an intial IEP it can be implemented without parent signature after 10 days. As long as it isn't appealed.

Writing the Individualized Education Plan (IEP) (http://www.understandingspecialeducation.com/individualized-education-plan.html - broken link)

Free Educational Plan: Determining the appropriate placement Implementation Annual review Acceptance/Amendments of an IEP

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...8LT7S9rMh2Bm_Q

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...OiyIr-TolTD9PQ
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:42 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
HUH??? Watching a ball bounce is way less abstract than visualizing molecular orbitals and shapes of molecules. You can experience physics. You can't chemistry. In physics, you drop something it falls, you swing a pendulum and it swings back, you can test centripital force, you can construct circuits and test resistance..... In chemistry, you mix test tube A with test tube B, it turns white and gets hot and you have no clue as to why. Chemistry is way more abstract than physics.

Physics you can discover. It can be taught as inquiry. Chemistry has to be explained in painstaking detail.
They are equally abstract.

You can make models for chem, or even better show actual chemical reactions. For anything beyond a very basic physical science course (and gen physics is clearly beyond general physics) it is equally abstract.

Light, images, angular momentum, thermosynamics, etc are all very abstract. Bouncing a ball is exactly the same in its ability to explain or measure gravity as watching a reaction is to explaining chem.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:44 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
If a parent doesn't show up for a meeting, that's one thing, but if a parent refuses to give permission for the IEP, it can't legally be implemented.

I am almost positive the 11th day rule is federal.

If an IEP is not appealed it gets implemented after 10 days.
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:34 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,792,939 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
As long as it is not an intial IEP it can be implemented without parent signature after 10 days. As long as it isn't appealed.
Again, I'm talking about a parent refusing to sign the IEP, not simply missing a meeting.

From your third link:

Quote:
If the parent signature indicates disagreement with the proposed educational services, the IEP may not be implemented and the student “stays put.” The Office of Special Services should be contacted for technical assistance in determining the course of action to be taken.
Support for Special Needs:

Quote:
If you refuse to agree to your child’s annual IEP, the District is required to provide the placement and services offered in the last IEP that you signed and that was implemented.
FAQ:

Quote:
When a parent disagrees with an IEP and files for due process, the student is to continue to receive the placement and services in the last agreed upon and implemented IEP during the due process proceedings. This is commonly known as "stay put."
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:51 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,167,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Again, I'm talking about a parent refusing to sign the IEP, not simply missing a meeting.

From your third link:



Support for Special Needs:



FAQ:
So am I

" Recent changes have instituted the 11th day rule. The I.E.P must be signed or appealed after 10 days, or the school can implement the most recent version."

Welcome !

"If you miss the 10-day deadline for returning the NOREP and requesting a hearing or mediation, you can still challenge the proposed placement at mediation or at a hearing. But, in the meantime, the school can move forward with its proposed change. For example, the school district can move your child from a learning support to an emotional support classroom, and your child will have to stay in the new placement until you get a decision in your favor from a special education appeal panel, or until you have successfully completed all steps in the hearing and appeal process."
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Sw98hnbpYWRilw

If a parent refuses to sign the IEP without appealing it, then it gets implemented. It has nothing to do with meeting or not meeting. Once the parent gets the IEP they have 10 days to agree to it and sign it or appeal it. If they do neither of those to things, then the most recent IEP (the one made after the meeting) goes into implementation.

Apparently this is a fairly recent change. Maybe your school is not following these new practices yet?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:04 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,792,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
So am I

" Recent changes have instituted the 11th day rule. The I.E.P must be signed or appealed after 10 days, or the school can implement the most recent version."

Welcome !
Sorry, but this site is suspect. It says:

Quote:
At the end of twelfth grade, students with disabilities will receive an IEP diploma if they have successfully met the IEP goals. If they have not met the requirements for the high school diploma, then the IEP diploma is not awarded.
The majority of students with disabilities receive regular diplomas, not IEP diplomas.

It also says:

Quote:
The child's teacher(s). If the child has more than one teacher, then all teachers are required to attend.
Not true. An IEP teams needs only two teachers -- one Special Educator and one Regular Ed teacher.

It also says:

Quote:
New York State requires the presence of a parent member. A parent member is the parent of a child with a disability (not the parent of the child for whom the IEP is being developed) who has had special training in the workings of the IEP process.[citation needed]
Yeah, ummmmm, I taught in New York City for two years and NEVER was a "parent member" a required part of the IEP team. (Note the "citation needed" comment -- this sounds more Wikipedia-ish than governmental.)


Quote:
"If you miss the 10-day deadline for returning the NOREP and requesting a hearing or mediation, you can still challenge the proposed placement at mediation or at a hearing. But, in the meantime, the school can move forward with its proposed change. For example, the school district can move your child from a learning support to an emotional support classroom, and your child will have to stay in the new placement until you get a decision in your favor from a special education appeal panel, or until you have successfully completed all steps in the hearing and appeal process."
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Sw98hnbpYWRilw
This document is from 2009 -- hardly "recent."

I'm sorry, I don't want to quibble, but I just don't believe that when a parent refuses to agree to special education services, a school is going to go ahead and provide them anyway. The student will stay where s/he is currently until the issue is resolved, because services can't legally be stopped without due process, but that's it.

If someone can provide a legitimate, preferably Federal Government, link that shows otherwise, I'll concede that I'm wrong.

Here's the official IDEA 2004 website.
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