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Old 12-06-2011, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
One reason this may be the case is the smartest Asians immigrated to the US. The wealthy, educated Asians. The Asians on the far right side of the bell curve. The median or below Asian is still in Asia picking rice. Those right side Asians are being compared with the whole bell curve of Americans and the left side Hispanics.

The left side of the bell curve Hispanics move to the US. The poor, uneducated, agrarian background Hispanics. Not too many Hispanic PhDs, engineers, and scientists move to the US compared to the poor uneducated ones.

Most wealthy asians are still in Asia. Those that immigrated to the US are of the lower economic status looking for the "American Dream" and by many standards have achieved it. Many of the Asian kids in high schools these days, are AMERICAN. Probably third generation by now.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:50 PM
 
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Asian kids, whether immigrants or born and reared here are brought up a different way than non Asian kids. The controversial book Tiger Mom basically outlined the differences. Asian parents are not afraid to tell their kids that they suck at math and that they should do better while non Asian parents are afraid that they will hurt their kids sensitive feelings and that they should be more concerned with individual expressionism rather than getting an education to prepare themselves for the future. In South Korea they had to pass a law to prevent students from staying at school past midnight. Yet, they have the highest test scores even aceing "standardized tests geared for white kids"
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,412 posts, read 8,283,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
The question is, what do they know?
Some things I see at my particular school...

- Parents are upper mid-class and often highly educated (stay-at-home moms I know are doctors, engineers, etc.).

- Parent is very involved in child's schoolwork often reteaching skills at home (e.g. They own home copies of all school textbooks).

- Parent does not hesitate to obtain outside tutoring/help for child when needed.

- Parent will limit many social activities so child can study.

- Parents know the advanced class selection process well and will thoroughly prep their kids for the gatekeeper/entry tests. (E.g. In first grade they prep for gifted placement IQ tests, in 6th grade for pre-ACT/SAT tests, etc.).

- Parents often use "drill & kill" programs such as Kumon, Suzuki, Singapore Math that encourage constant review & repetition and does not allow topic progression until complete skill mastery (often near perfection is required).

- Children are encouraged (often required) to learn classical music (e.g. Suzuki method) and multiple languages which may increase academic achievement.

- Parents tend to start formal teaching for their children at a very young age (e.g. the 3 year old Suzuki violinist).

- There is a very strong work ethic and belief that most things can be achieved through hard work and focus.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:11 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,137,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
Some things I see at my particular school...

- Parents are upper mid-class and often highly educated (stay-at-home moms I know are doctors, engineers, etc.).

- Parent is very involved in child's schoolwork often reteaching skills at home (e.g. They own home copies of all school textbooks).

- Parent does not hesitate to obtain outside tutoring/help for child when needed.

- Parent will limit many social activities so child can study.

- Parents know the advanced class selection process well and will thoroughly prep their kids for the gatekeeper/entry tests. (E.g. In first grade they prep for gifted placement IQ tests, in 6th grade for pre-ACT/SAT tests, etc.).

- Parents often use "drill & kill" programs such as Kumon, Suzuki, Singapore Math that encourage constant review & repetition and does not allow topic progression until complete skill mastery (often near perfection is required).

- Children are encouraged (often required) to learn classical music (e.g. Suzuki method) and multiple languages which may increase academic achievement.

- Parents tend to start formal teaching for their children at a very young age (e.g. the 3 year old Suzuki violinist).

- There is a very strong work ethic and belief that most things can be achieved through hard work and focus.
Hmm.... I see. Looks like Asian parents take on the role of being a parent, while other parents neglect?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Hmm.... I see. Looks like Asian parents take on the role of being a parent, while other parents neglect?
I obviously did not say this, so you are bringing this up to bait? In my experience (could be different in other towns), the Asian parents are often more likely to have the background/ focus on all the activities I listed. All this has been covered in numerous articles and popular books like "Tiger Mom." It's also observed by people like the OP and those of us with kids in elite G&T programs/natl. camps that have a higher than average proportion of Asian kids.

And BTW, I did not say all these activities are good. If kids are pushed too hard, academic achievement can come at the expense of social, leadership, socio-emotional development. It is a balance after all.

Last edited by GoCUBS1; 12-06-2011 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:47 PM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,137,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
I obviously did not say this, so you are bringing this up to bait? In my experience (could be different in other towns), the Asian parents are often more likely to have the background/ focus on all the activities I listed. All this has been covered in numerous articles and popular books like "Tiger Mom." It's also observed by people like the OP and those of us with kids in elite G&T programs/natl. camps that have a higher than average proportion of Asian kids.
It was just my conclusion based on the points you made. Many of those points were in-line with how I was raised. I'm not discounting to the fact that this may have contributed to my academic success. I don't have kids myself yet... however, I hope to carry on the tradition that my parents used, and their parents before them.

In the area in which I live, we have a disproportionate amount of Asians. In fact, Asians are the largest race in our town behind white. I saw this image earlier today:

http://i.imgur.com/Pwnf4.jpg

I found it funny because I live in the purple area labeled "Old People and Asians". Lol.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:10 PM
 
15,745 posts, read 13,180,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic? View Post
At my kids High School the top students are always the Asian immmigrants. Usually they are the girls and usually they are from China, Korea or India. 8 out of 10 of the top students are girls.

But the problem is the immigrants are rarely involved in classroom discussions or in clubs, sports, music or other non class options.

Is this true in your school?

Are "immigrants" the top students at your High School?
What do you mean by immigrants? Many if not most immigrants would not be able to overcome the ESL issue to be the "top" students.

Maybe you mean AMERICANS who are ethnically asian? Because that is a VERY different thing, based on the second option YOU are an immigrant too.

Anyway, yes, AMERICANS who are ethnically asian are disproportionately over represented in the top levels of our school but they are the same kids who are class officers, club leaders, top level athletes and contributors to the entire school and classroom environment.

If some Americans who are ethnically Asian appear "quiet" in class it is frequently only because they are shockingly less disruptive to the classroom than other students.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:13 PM
 
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Although I am sure parents have a tremendous influence on the success of their kids education, I think it has more to do with their social surroundings. There are kids in Asia and India that are parentless or have one parent that is too busy working, yet they excel academically. I think its how Asian and Indian people think.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:14 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 2,859,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What do you mean by immigrants? Many if not most immigrants would not be able to overcome the ESL issue to be the "top" students.

Maybe you mean AMERICANS who are ethnically asian? Because that is a VERY different thing, based on the second option YOU are an immigrant too.

Anyway, yes, AMERICANS who are ethnically asian are disproportionately over represented in the top levels of our school but they are the same kids who are class officers, club leaders, top level athletes and contributors to the entire school and classroom environment.

If some Americans who are ethnically Asian appear "quiet" in class it is frequently only because they are shockingly less disruptive to the classroom than other students.

many non American Asian students do very well in college despite the ESL issue
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:14 PM
 
511 posts, read 1,987,575 times
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My definition of this situation is an immigrant is someone who is a first or second generation American. Or the children of someone who is here via a special work permit and may or may not be on the road to citizenship.

* I don't consider myself an immigrant because my family has been here for six generations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What do you mean by immigrants? Many if not most immigrants would not be able to overcome the ESL issue to be the "top" students.

Maybe you mean AMERICANS who are ethnically asian? Because that is a VERY different thing, based on the second option YOU are an immigrant too.

Anyway, yes, AMERICANS who are ethnically asian are disproportionately over represented in the top levels of our school but they are the same kids who are class officers, club leaders, top level athletes and contributors to the entire school and classroom environment.

If some Americans who are ethnically Asian appear "quiet" in class it is frequently only because they are shockingly less disruptive to the classroom than other students.
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