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Old 12-08-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,412 posts, read 8,296,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetka View Post
Because they are home doing homework! My guess is their parents would view it as a waist of time that takes away from the studying - like previously said, too much focus on one area comes at a cost of missing out on other things.
Yes, I also said that in previous posts. I just find it interesting that the Indian immigrant group in my area is as academically competitive as all the other immigrant groups, but also seem to participate/achieve on sports teams as well. The Indian immigrants seem unique in this way. I rarely see the other immigrant groups involved in team sports (but maybe this is particular to my locale). I do live in an area with a large population of Indian/Asian immigrants though. My kids also have participated in just about every sports team in our town (lots of driving around for me).
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
I'm Indian, and I can confirm that Hindi isn't an ethnicity. Hindi speakers in north-central India don't really represent any kind of monolithic group and could even be considered "generic Indians."
Is this a religion ? Hindu ? Those Indian are vegetarian?
In my kids' school, White American-non Spanish kids have great leadership skill. They can study well in many different subjects. Anyway in my area, there are 97% white-non Spanish, and very small group of others. For Asain, they are usually good with math, science more than others. Many medical students in many medical school are Indian, also as good as IT fields. However, they need to learn leadership or management skills from White students.

Last edited by Nancy2011; 12-08-2011 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetka View Post
Like it was mentioned - it's the opportunities, which are lacking in the countries they left behind. Even though the US has seen it's better days, compared to other countries in the world, it offers a higher average standard of living and an opportunity to improve one's socioeconomic status or achieve success in any field they choose, if they are willing to study and work hard.

The chance to move to the US for these people is like winning a lottery, and not trying hard would be like not cashing in your ticket!

This is why it's disconcerting to see when people who were born here don't realize how good they have it and take these opportunities for granted...
The thing is I've seen 3rd generation Asians excel to the head of the class. And they, and their parents were born here. I disagree that leaving a third-world country for a country of opportunity is the primary factor. I can see that applying to 1st gen.... however in my town, the 3rd gen is certainly not struggling, financially, or acceptance.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Originally Posted by Freebird2007 View Post
you can always tell which Chinese students were from HK by their really English sounding names....i.e. Herbert, Vincent, George, Terrence, Harold, Beatrice, Margaret, etc etc
It is a worldwide custom, when people are learning English as a Foreign Language, to adopt an English name for use in conversation practice. People I know from Hong Kong always have an adopted English name, which they always use when conversing or corresponding in English,, but they still legally retain their Chinese birth name. When I studied Spanish, I was also encouraged to use the Spanish equivalent or approximation of my real first name.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:52 PM
 
11,616 posts, read 19,752,606 times
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Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
The Suzuki music method is embraced by many Asian Americans (and non-Asians as well). This method encourages kids to start lessons very early (at 3 even) and follow a very strict practice regiment. Students follow a sequence in the Suzuki books and must perfectly play a piece (as it is written including fingering) and are not allowed to progress to the next piece until this is done. Creative interpretation of pieces (e.g. changing key, tempo, fingering) is frowned upon. The child should learn the piece exactly as it is written in the official book and should not deviate from it. They are also supposed to constantly be listening to this same piece on the Suzuki CD.

My kids started with this method but it was killing their love for music. They actually left the program to start a rock band which gave them more creative freedom. They are now back in orchestra again and doing very well, but a high proportion of the Suzuki students have dropped out. I think they were burned out from the method. But our teachers were very critical and hardcore on the Suzuki method. Maybe there are more flexible Suzuki methods out there that have better longterm results.

BTW, the Kumon math method has a very similar format of relentless repetition before progression to new topics (drill & kill). There are many benefits to Suzuki and Kumon, but building a love for the subject matter and encouraging creative thought is not one of them IMO.
I am familiar with the Suzuki method. It really might explain why so many Asian middle school kids make All County in our school while there are not that many Asian high school kids make it.

The Suzuki method prizes technical proficiency over musicality. Since most middle schoolers are still pretty new the most technically proficient players will make All County. In high school the kids are expected to play with more musicality and sensitivity in addition to their technical proficiency. Perhaps the kids who are brought up with the Suzuki method don't learn to be in touch with the music.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It is a worldwide custom, when people are learning English as a Foreign Language, to adopt an English name for use in conversation practice. People I know from Hong Kong always have an adopted English name, which they always use when conversing or corresponding in English,, but they still legally retain their Chinese birth name. When I studied Spanish, I was also encouraged to use the Spanish equivalent or approximation of my real first name.
They need to do that because they try to make it easier for communication with American people. It is hard to pronounce their original names correctly. They don't have to feel uncomfortable for both when they introduce their names to others in job's interview, business meetings. At home or with their communities, they still use their original names. However, last names are always kept.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Chicago
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I am familiar with the Suzuki method. It really might explain why so many Asian middle school kids make All County in our school while there are not that many Asian high school kids make it.

The Suzuki method prizes technical proficiency over musicality. Since most middle schoolers are still pretty new the most technically proficient players will make All County. In high school the kids are expected to play with more musicality and sensitivity in addition to their technical proficiency. Perhaps the kids who are brought up with the Suzuki method don't learn to be in touch with the music.
I agree with your points.... One benefit my kids may have gotten from the Suzuki method though may be their ability to play music by ear. They can hear a song on the radio, pick it out on the piano, then on the classical guitar, then the string bass, etc. In the early years, before the kids are able to read music, there may be a lot of good ear training going on with this program.

I do think there is a risk it can stifle musical creativity though. It does build strong technical skills so maybe it is a better program for an orchestra musician who just needs to be technically proficient at playing what's in front of them. Not sure how good it is at creating musical artists though. It would be interesting to see some longterm research on all of this.

I'll never forget the day my 8 year old changed (on purpose) the key of a song in Suzuki Book 2 and proudly added a little 5 bar blues embellishment to it. Her teacher was furious (literally yelled at her which was abusive IMO) for deviating from the Suzuki script and applying her own creativity to the piece. That's when I knew it was time for us to leave the program. But maybe I just had a bad experience with one particular program.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:44 PM
 
11,616 posts, read 19,752,606 times
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Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
I agree with your points.... One benefit my kids may have gotten from the Suzuki method though may be their ability to play music by ear. They can hear a song on the radio, pick it out on the piano, then on the classical guitar, then the string bass, etc. In the early years, before the kids are able to read music, there may be a lot of good ear training going on with this program.

I do think there is a risk it can stifle musical creativity though. It does build strong technical skills so maybe it is a better program for an orchestra musician who just needs to be technically proficient at playing what's in front of them. Not sure how good it is at creating musical artists though. It would be interesting to see some longterm research on all of this.

I'll never forget the day my 8 year old changed (on purpose) the key of a song in Suzuki Book 2 and proudly added a little 5 bar blues embellishment to it. Her teacher was furious (literally yelled at her which was abusive IMO) for deviating from the Suzuki script and applying her own creativity to the piece. That's when I knew it was time for us to leave the program. But maybe I just had a bad experience with one particular program.
I am a vocalist. I played violin when I was young but I was taught the traditional method of playing.

IMO there are two strengths of the Suzuki method. The first is that it builds technical proficiency and the second is that it builds a GREAT ear.

However, IMO it is UNMUSICAL. As a musician I can see starting a student out on a rote method like Suzuki, but eventually you have to allow young musicians to be musical. To play(sing) with one's heart and soul is what makes us human.

I am not a big fan of the Suzuki method past the beginning stages of learning.
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:59 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,914,827 times
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Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
I think Asians will be able to adapt. Asians do not have a biological barrier preventing them from being creative. At least not in the case of M.Night Shyamalan and Steve Jobs.

If you step into countries like Japan, China, India, Eastern Russia, you'll see that there's no lacking of creativity when it comes to architecture, fashion, and entertainment. Many of those can be carried over into innovation.
Of course they have the ability to be creative (Steve Jobs was Asian??), but their educational systems do not stress creativity. They stress rote learning and memorization.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:23 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 2,863,238 times
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Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Of course they have the ability to be creative (Steve Jobs was Asian??), but their educational systems do not stress creativity. They stress rote learning and memorization.

really? considering most of the innovations to TV, Computers, automobiles, as well as music and movies seem to be coming from Asia.

I would hardly say that Asians are not creative. Unless by creative you mean they don't see a 200lb trash heap as art.
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