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Old 12-14-2011, 06:50 AM
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I totally agree with making Pre-K mandatory at age 2 or 3, with a great emphasis on literacy.

I also feel that true vocational education needs to make a comeback with interaction with relevant community institutions. I would also include other magnet options like the arts, finance and business. That way you have a pipeline to those institutions, instead to other negative institutions that are just waiting for them.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
They suffer because their mother is broke.
. . . and their father is . . . ?

I have neighbors who are broke. Their children are not starving. I have noticed them outside playing quite a bit, though, when I'm sure school is in session. A few times I've asked one of the boys if there was a teacher workday or holiday. Once he said, "I don't know. They just picked us up early." Usually it's, "I'm sick."

And homework is only a punishment. "Quit messin' with your brother, or I'll make you come in here and do homework!"
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
The problem is that those living in poverty often times are not "expected" to do well therefore they are not exposed to or pushed to excel.
I really think that it boils down to early language acquisition. Those who live in poverty speak less words to their young children and the words they do speak are not as advanced. Therefore, the kids do not acquire the language skills they need to succeed in school. They start school without the foundation they need to succeed in school and thus they do not succeed in school.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
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Originally Posted by sll3454 View Post
. . . and their father is . . . ?
. . . often times a sociopath. In my modest circle of acquaintances, I know a frightening number of moms who are the main form of entertainment for a sociopath who is subjecting wives and children to a reign of terror, from which it is virtually impossible to escape, short of homicide.

But more often (sometimes for the lucky ones), their father is . . . missing and/or unknown.

Which is not germane to my comment in an earlier post. Increasingly, even if he is at home, mom and dad alike are broke, because the conservative thought is that they deserve to be, it is their own fault, they are irresponsible. They seem immune to punishment, so we are commanded by God and Constitution to punish their children by denying or withholding their means of support and access to dignity.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:37 AM
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Great article that gets at the heart of this issue IMO:

The Unadressed Link Between Poverty and Education

If we don't ever admit the 2 are linked and react accordingly, nothing will change. But it may be politically impossible to get school where they need to be to really make an impact.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:51 AM
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Fantastic thread all..... I've been maintaining this position for years... "It ain't the teachers, its demographics."
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:43 AM
Location: Homeless
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Having grown up in one of those poverty stricken neighborhoods I can say there is no single method fix.
Even if the parents try their best to push their kids and give them values, that street money right now looks way better than achieving things in the future.
To be the first kid on the block with the new "J's" and the jewelry is paramount.
And when you see Jody the dope boy with the cars. clothes, and girls, like the guys on TV, someone talkng about education and fitness for employment are not even coming across.
Those terms were nonexistent for our current knowledge and seemed like pointless dreams for those who did know.
Either you got it now or you never got it.

And there was the derision, beating, ostracizing, and bullying of those children who did perform well in school.
Even learning to fight does not help you against a group. So some kids eventually decide it is better to dumb oneself down or either act the part so as to not have to deal with the problems anymore.
Telling the teachers got you beaten even worse for being a snitch.
And nobody called the cops because your family might get harassed.

I could go on all day. I agree with many of the points that some of you made.
Something needs to be done but what , where, and how to bring a systematic improvement.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:50 PM
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It's not the poverty, it's parental involvement like golfgal stated. That makes the biggest difference.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:57 PM
Location: southern california
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not so. charter schools have been watered down to admit most anybody, ACLU NAACP did this bek they felt that requiring students to have a clean record and good grades was racial discrimination.
initially charter schools were great.
as to lectures by rich people. i would want my kid to hear and be taught by the successful not by the proud confident losers. we already got plenty of gangsta culture snoop dog lecturers.
we need more jesse jacksons and more bill cosby lecturers.
al sharpton says pull your pants up and put your 9mm down.
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:55 PM
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The language study reminds me of another study I once read, that found the number of books in a family home was a decent predictor of academic success. The more books in the home from infancy, the better a child did in school, and vice versa.

So the solution seems simple at first-- fill homes with books, expose young children to adults with a greater vocabulary, and they should start to perform better academically.

But we may be looking at a chicken-egg situation. The larger vocabularies and bookshelves might be indicative of other factors allowing children to succeed, and are not causes of the success in and of themselves. There's no guarantee that artificially exposing children to language in a preschool environment will produce the same benefits found in children organically receiving the exposure.

I remember when the cry was for kindergarten-- then for preK at age 4-- and now people are calling for school at age 2 to make up for deficits at home. What's next, taking them directly from the hospital nursery?
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