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Old 11-22-2018, 03:32 PM
 
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Interesting.
No, we do divide and multiply differently from Americans. The steps and layout is different.
At 63+ I still can divide and multiply in my head. Nothing complex, but I am not reaching for calculator for 12x11, for example.

While you are on math subject


What is Vedic Mathematics and How Vedic Maths is Important


arian arithmetic - allows to do arithmetic calculations for single, two and thre dimensional objects and for three/time dimensional objects. Sorry, no English equivalent


Гипотезы и факты х’Арийская арифметика
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:55 PM
 
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I've seen some translated Russian math books. I'd say they much more intense and rigorous, they don't hold your hand like American books.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:45 PM
 
Location: California
29,896 posts, read 32,431,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I've never heard of the times tables memorization being thrown out of the curriculum. When did this happen? Or is this only Canada? In US schools, the times tables were memorized in 3rd grade, normally at age 8. Long division was in 4th grade, age 9. I've never heard of "long multiplication".

A strong memory is a key component of intelligence. Training the memory is essential. It's interesting that you mention memorizing poetry, and that you're teaching your child at home. Aside from some feeble poetry-learning exercises in 4th grade in school, the only poetry memorization experience I had, was from the "Russian" education I received at home, after school. I also learned Russian grammar in my Russian home-schooling, as you can imagine. I don't know about Canadian schools, but American public schools don't teach grammar, or in the states where I've lived and also done a bit of teaching, they don't. Students arrive at university, without being able to write research papers coherently. Universities now require a writing class in some form, in the freshman year, which is remedial work. It used to be expected that students would already have acquired those skills in high school, but so few did, that universities had to start requiring a writing course.

The North American school curricula fail in more areas than just math.
Well no. I was a product of "new math" and while my older relatives memorized times tables I did not. My kids are around 30 and neither of them memorized times tables, or much else, either. I suspect it's gone in and out of vogue in the areas of California I've lived in for half a century while we experimented with alternative forms of learning. Partly it was to prevent those who couldn't memorize (is this that intelligence component?) from failing or feeling like failures I think.

I do agree that memorization is important for more reasons that knowing the times tables and eliminating the need for extra steps in calculations. My dad was a big fan of memorization exercises and we used to do them as a game while I was growing up, but it was with words and not the times table unfortunately.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
I've seen some translated Russian math books. I'd say they much more intense and rigorous, they don't hold your hand like American books.
Nobody holds your hand like American schools/ Education Systems. Education elsewhere especially eastward is do or die. Education in America is Dont worry honey, you can try again next year..... all the way through college. Very forgiving, maybe too forgiving given the skills people lack in college.

There were moments where i really hated school growing up (Memorizing Multiplication tables to 12 in 3rd grade comes to mind) but Im so grateful for the type of education i got now.(Not Russian, but similar in tone, application and intent)

But thats not to say it didnt have its own problems.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:55 AM
 
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thanks for giving the amazing information.
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Old 12-18-2018, 01:17 PM
 
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I am a specialist in russian education area. I think american teachers afraid to compel children to hard work. All tasks are easy. But russian child get knowledge in 1 school year equals 3 school years in America. Russian teachers are very strict. And they can shout at children. So russian children learn to overcome any difficulty.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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I think Russia and Romania should offer math summer camps to Americans who struggle with math. Or for parents who want their children to learn math, and learn it well, so that they're comfortable and competent with it. These could be good money-makers of Western currencies for those economies.
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:17 AM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,920,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuala View Post
Being a graduate of a Russian school NN years ago, I just recently came in contact with how they teach math here in a Canadian elementary, through my kids. I am flabbergasted to say the least.

An example of learning algebra in Russia:

The Russians start school at 7.
8 years old, 2nd grade - memorizing multiplication tables by rote. No ifs, ands or buts.
9 years old, 3rd grade - simple word problems to convert into equations and solve - . (Kate has 7 candies. She and Michael have 15 candies in between them. How many candies does Michael have? -> students are supposed to convert

7 + x = 15
x = 15 - 7
x = 8

Later in the year, problems with two unknowns, 2 equations (well, for advanced kids).

10 years old, 4rd grade - starting integers. Long division / long multiplication.
11 years old, 5th grade - integer rules are all memorized ( a(b+c) = ab + ac etc.)

What I see here though is a fear of learning by rote. A fear, or inability to make children to memorize. Or discarded as too abusive?? (we had to memorize poems/texts, as well. I think memory development is wonderful). Not talking about teachers, more about school boards who set the rules. But the teachers have not learned by the rote, neither (since the drills were thrown out in the 80s?) so they basically don't know any better.

How can one never know multiplication tables??? At 8, we'd spend about 2 weeks on a single times table. Each pupil had to stand in front of the class and recite the table. Then we'd move onto the next table. The tables were in your bloodstream after that. I am sure older Canadians/Americans remember the drills, too.

Leaving my kids' math education to their school is unthinkable to me. They would not know how to add/subtract in column by the 4th grade. I teach my kids what I listed above, at home. Yet, my kids' doing it all automatically IS FROWN UPON !!!! I feel so bad for mid/high school students as they have no foundation.

Apparently, the sorry state of math teaching bothers a lot of Canadians, as can be seen in the 600 comments to this article:

Why Alex cant add (or subtract, multiply or divide)
This sounds reasonable, but I'm a child of a time when we did memorize everything, and Americans were still notoriously bad at math. So it must be something other than memorization, although that would certainly help. Could it be that American schools waste a lot of time during the day on unimportant things and don't spend enough time on math? My child spends maybe 45 minutes a day on math in his 5th grade classroom, and I know I probably spent less. But I remember lots of cutting and pasting and social studies and "library time" and music class and art class - not to mention the 10 minutes it took, 3 or 4 times a day, for everyone to line up to walk down the hall. Or is it that there is little extra help available for kids who don't get it? Are classes here bigger?
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
74,537 posts, read 66,170,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnseca View Post
This sounds reasonable, but I'm a child of a time when we did memorize everything, and Americans were still notoriously bad at math. So it must be something other than memorization, although that would certainly help. Could it be that American schools waste a lot of time during the day on unimportant things and don't spend enough time on math? My child spends maybe 45 minutes a day on math in his 5th grade classroom, and I know I probably spent less. But I remember lots of cutting and pasting and social studies and "library time" and music class and art class - not to mention the 10 minutes it took, 3 or 4 times a day, for everyone to line up to walk down the hall. Or is it that there is little extra help available for kids who don't get it? Are classes here bigger?
My observation is that, where students really fall down, is when algebra hits. When I was in school, 7th & 8th grade ease you into working with "x" - type equations, and that's when people start to struggle. If that isn't taught well, 9th grade algebra is a lost cause. After I worked hours every night on algebra homework, only to get a hard-won C grade, I found out that I'd gotten the highest grade in algebra of anyone in my family, including my parents! Crazy. I aced geometry, though.

So IDK, but there seems to be a problem with the way algebra is taught, and how it's prepared for in earlier grades. One poster said, that in Russia, they're already formulating basic math functions as "x" equations in 3rd grade. That would probably help. I remember the whole "x" thing coming out of left field as a totally new concept that had to be explained, in 7th grade. It's a difficult transition for many students, to start thinking in those terms, suddenly, at 12 years of age.
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,279 posts, read 60,617,679 times
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My son who just started college figured out a way to complete calculus problems much faster than the way they were being taught. He had the correct answers, but be got marked wrong (0), because he did not do ti the tong overly complicated way that often resulted in incorrect answers because it was so complex. If he did it the long complex way and got a wrong answer he would get a better grade than if he did it efficiently and got the right answer. He had the final victory though when he got a 4/5 (or something like that) on the Calc AP test and the teacher had to give him an A in the class.
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