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Old 01-11-2019, 02:59 PM
Status: "securing our Northern border" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
20,867 posts, read 21,043,714 times
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Da! Russian Math twice (X3) as good as weak US Math.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:33 PM
 
2,177 posts, read 802,671 times
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While I do agree with the general premise that public education in the US is rather weak (same goes for Canada and Australia), emulating the Russian or Asian model isn't something that I'm too keen on. Math is obviously an incredibly important field and forms the basis of science, but it shouldn't be treated specially.

There are a lot of people who have little to no interest in math and have no desire in pursuing a career heavily centered around it. Why should math be put on a pedestal at the expense of literature, art or music just to satisfy some arbitrary criteria? One can easily get by in life with a minimum amount of math.

Most Eastern European and Asian education systems view math as the Holy Grail. Those who are not good at it are ridiculed and told that they will be failures in life.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:00 PM
 
6,408 posts, read 6,315,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
While I do agree with the general premise that public education in the US is rather weak (same goes for Canada and Australia), emulating the Russian or Asian model isn't something that I'm too keen on. Math is obviously an incredibly important field and forms the basis of science, but it shouldn't be treated specially.

There are a lot of people who have little to no interest in math and have no desire in pursuing a career heavily centered around it. Why should math be put on a pedestal at the expense of literature, art or music just to satisfy some arbitrary criteria? One can easily get by in life with a minimum amount of math.

Most Eastern European and Asian education systems view math as the Holy Grail. Those who are not good at it are ridiculed and told that they will be failures in life.
America can take STEM PhD students and hire professionals from foreign countries. In fact 70% STEM PhDs in US universities are foreign born.
Russia and China cannot do that so they must be strict.
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:27 AM
 
7,596 posts, read 8,465,796 times
Reputation: 5769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
While I do agree with the general premise that public education in the US is rather weak (same goes for Canada and Australia), emulating the Russian or Asian model isn't something that I'm too keen on. Math is obviously an incredibly important field and forms the basis of science, but it shouldn't be treated specially.

There are a lot of people who have little to no interest in math and have no desire in pursuing a career heavily centered around it. Why should math be put on a pedestal at the expense of literature, art or music just to satisfy some arbitrary criteria? One can easily get by in life with a minimum amount of math.

Most Eastern European and Asian education systems view math as the Holy Grail. Those who are not good at it are ridiculed and told that they will be failures in life.
Math is the holy grail.
A great painter can paint a beautiful rendering of the moon. It took engineers, physicists and mathematicians to get there.
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:05 PM
 
954 posts, read 597,813 times
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Not a "good" understanding for sure. Physical laws are described in math.
I guess that depends on what one thinks a ‘good’ understanding of science entails. I’ll agree to disagree.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:03 PM
 
7,596 posts, read 8,465,796 times
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Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
I guess that depends on what one thinks a ‘good’ understanding of science entails. I’ll agree to disagree.
In other words you have no legitimate retort.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:52 AM
 
954 posts, read 597,813 times
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Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
In other words you have no legitimate retort.
Or maybe i have little patience for circular arguments. And mine would have been a RESPONSE, not a retort- not sure there’s much place for those in ‘legitimate’ debate.

But yeah lets go with your theory.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:00 PM
 
7,596 posts, read 8,465,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
:

Or maybe i have little patience for circular arguments. And mine would have been a RESPONSE, not a retort- not sure there’s much place for those in ‘legitimate’ debate.

But yeah lets go with your theory.
I offered some specific examples above which you dodged.

I love and admire art. Especially paintings, classical music and jazz. I can see and somehow understand that Vermeer's, "Girl With a Pearl Earring" is something of transcendent beauty. However, I do not know how to paint beyond latex on a wall so I have no depth of knowledge as to how Vermeer has been able to impart so much emotion and raw beauty to us through time.

I love listening to Mahler, Schubert, Sibelius and many others. I can hear the beauty, emotion and power etc. However, I don't really know what's going on to any significant degree as A). I can't read sheet music B). I can't play any instrument C). I'm at least somewhat tone deaf.

I'm honest enough with myself to acknowledge that people who have abilities that I don't and the same level of interest have advantages over me in these areas and in fact they have greater depth of knowledge.
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:53 AM
 
10,171 posts, read 14,590,415 times
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Here's first hand vid on differences. She skipped multiplying for some reason.. but pretty obvious otherwise:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWdL88ARzhM&t=348s
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Old 01-19-2019, 11:16 AM
509
 
2,700 posts, read 3,883,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Here's first hand vid on differences. She skipped multiplying for some reason.. but pretty obvious otherwise:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWdL88ARzhM&t=348s
Hey....thanks for the video!

When I was growing up my dad tried to teach me basic arithmetic using the "Russian" method. I just couldn't follow since I was learning the "American" method in school. I never did "learn" the Russian method and always wondered if it was some "ancient" arithmetic procedures even though he did tell me that was how it was done in the home country.

BTW....my father NEVER learned to read or write in any language. The Russian Revolution happened in the same year he was born and it was total chaos all the way into WWII. So he missed learning to read and write in Russian, German, Spanish and finally English.

But he did understand math pretty well. So it is a universal language like she states in the beginning of the video. It got him work as a electrician, carpenter and other skill sets that require a good understanding of basic arithmetic.

My Russian is very rusty since my parents died, but I believe in the video she does mention that the "American" method for basic equations is superior. I would be great to see that video in English.

The problem with "American" math skills is that it is NOT stressed in schools. I told my daughter that I didn't care what the grades were in "other" classes but I wanted A's in math and science. She did it, but did not persue college study in the sciences. But she remarks on how useful the math has been in her work (see went through two quarters of Calculus). And she has always been able to find work as a result. Employers love her.

I was in Vladivostock in 1996. In the courtyard of an apartment building their was a bunch of graffiti on the wall in chalk. When I looked closer at it, the "graffiti" was the solution for a fairly complex equation. I don't think I ever saw that sort of "graffiti" on any wall or train in the US!!

I know as American's we think we are "better" in the sciences than the rest of the world. My guess is that is rapidly changing and we really don't recognize it since the change is gradual.

It doesn't seem to bother American's that we can no longer reach the International Space Station unless we write the Russians a check. Think about it.....we cannot even put a man into low earth orbit today and nobody really cares.

Yes, the reliance on immigrants has slowed the decline, but China and other countries are making great efforts to bring back their American trained scientists and engineers.
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