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Old 01-20-2019, 09:53 PM
 
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That still doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people with little to no interest in either math or science. Why should they he forced to pursue math at the expense of something else?

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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
America can take STEM PhD students and hire professionals from foreign countries. In fact 70% STEM PhDs in US universities are foreign born.
Russia and China cannot do that so they must be strict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Math is the holy grail.
A great painter can paint a beautiful rendering of the moon. It took engineers, physicists and mathematicians to get there.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:37 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
75,231 posts, read 66,962,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Here's first hand vid on differences. She skipped multiplying for some reason.. but pretty obvious otherwise:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWdL88ARzhM&t=348s
She lost me. I don't see what's so cumbersome about "our" way.

My one regret, is that I never learned to do math on an abacus. I was raised by an older generation, that calculated their monthly bills and expenses on an abacus. You don't see those anymore. I missed my chance.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:05 AM
 
7,653 posts, read 8,495,558 times
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
She lost me. I don't see what's so cumbersome about "our" way.

My one regret, is that I never learned to do math on an abacus. I was raised by an older generation, that calculated their monthly bills and expenses on an abacus. You don't see those anymore. I missed my chance.
Not an abacus but my father in law was a civil engineer who was an absolute master with a slide-rule.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:40 AM
 
7,653 posts, read 8,495,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That still doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people with little to no interest in either math or science. Why should they he forced to pursue math at the expense of something else?
Every student should be exposed to math for myriad reasons chief among them is our working class is losing ground to similar cadres across the world who have these skills. Now and going forward a super-preponderance of higher paying jobs do/will require strong or at least decent proven math skills - from nursing, actually most anything in medicine to finance/banking/accounting to farming etc. Most of the good jobs require math skills. Generally people without math skills are either left out of these areas or relegated to PC help-desk/admin. type jobs.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:30 AM
509
 
2,700 posts, read 3,891,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That still doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people with little to no interest in either math or science. Why should they he forced to pursue math at the expense of something else?
In today’s world, not having a science background means your illiterate.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:34 AM
509
 
2,700 posts, read 3,891,375 times
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
She lost me. I don't see what's so cumbersome about "our" way.

My one regret, is that I never learned to do math on an abacus. I was raised by an older generation, that calculated their monthly bills and expenses on an abacus. You don't see those anymore. I missed my chance.
Because you learned it that way! I found the Russian method cumbersome.

My dad did know how to use a abacus and tried to teach me. I did know how to use a slide rule, but was really happy when programable calculators showed up.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:16 PM
 
6,411 posts, read 6,328,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That still doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people with little to no interest in either math or science. Why should they he forced to pursue math at the expense of something else?
"Interest" is not a myth. Besides personal characteristics, it also depends on environment and culture.
If the schools encourage kids to learn math and reward those who do well, more kids will be interested.
On the other hand, if the culture emphasizes "being cool" and laughs at "nerds", more kids will hate math.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:29 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,050 posts, read 22,406,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
While I do agree with the general premise that public education in the US is rather weak (same goes for Canada and Australia), emulating the Russian or Asian model isn't something that I'm too keen on. Math is obviously an incredibly important field and forms the basis of science, but it shouldn't be treated specially.

There are a lot of people who have little to no interest in math and have no desire in pursuing a career heavily centered around it. Why should math be put on a pedestal at the expense of literature, art or music just to satisfy some arbitrary criteria? One can easily get by in life with a minimum amount of math.

Most Eastern European and Asian education systems view math as the Holy Grail. Those who are not good at it are ridiculed and told that they will be failures in life.
Could not agree more.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:32 PM
 
10,187 posts, read 14,635,169 times
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Anorexic girl in the vid prefers some American ways and some Russian ways. Like 3rd example, she's routing for American. I didn't go far deep into it, I deal with no equations...
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:06 AM
 
Location: San Antonio/Houston
34,881 posts, read 53,444,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Hey....thanks for the video!

When I was growing up my dad tried to teach me basic arithmetic using the "Russian" method. I just couldn't follow since I was learning the "American" method in school. I never did "learn" the Russian method and always wondered if it was some "ancient" arithmetic procedures even though he did tell me that was how it was done in the home country.

BTW....my father NEVER learned to read or write in any language. The Russian Revolution happened in the same year he was born and it was total chaos all the way into WWII. So he missed learning to read and write in Russian, German, Spanish and finally English.

But he did understand math pretty well. So it is a universal language like she states in the beginning of the video. It got him work as a electrician, carpenter and other skill sets that require a good understanding of basic arithmetic.

My Russian is very rusty since my parents died, but I believe in the video she does mention that the "American" method for basic equations is superior. I would be great to see that video in English.

The problem with "American" math skills is that it is NOT stressed in schools. I told my daughter that I didn't care what the grades were in "other" classes but I wanted A's in math and science. She did it, but did not persue college study in the sciences. But she remarks on how useful the math has been in her work (see went through two quarters of Calculus). And she has always been able to find work as a result. Employers love her.

I was in Vladivostock in 1996. In the courtyard of an apartment building their was a bunch of graffiti on the wall in chalk. When I looked closer at it, the "graffiti" was the solution for a fairly complex equation. I don't think I ever saw that sort of "graffiti" on any wall or train in the US!!

I know as American's we think we are "better" in the sciences than the rest of the world. My guess is that is rapidly changing and we really don't recognize it since the change is gradual.

It doesn't seem to bother American's that we can no longer reach the International Space Station unless we write the Russians a check. Think about it.....we cannot even put a man into low earth orbit today and nobody really cares.

Yes, the reliance on immigrants has slowed the decline, but China and other countries are making great efforts to bring back their American trained scientists and engineers.
I think that American HS grads should know at least enough math to function in life.
Sadly, from my observation - generally HS graduates would be "dead" without their gadgets. Thank goodness they don't need to balance a checkbook, but many need a calculator to figure out a tip amount, or give back change. Most don't know anything about budgeting and how to manage their paycheck so it last till the end of a pay period. They buy a car and later wonder why they pay so much in interest... etc.
Mostly nobody knows how to do math in their head or on piece of paper. They think they don't need to know even the basics because they have gadgets. Nowadays, they take picture of a math problem and let Google solve it for them. No one think about what they would do if they had no help. They are not worried or care that not knowing such basics makes them just look ... dumb.
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